Please help. Haven't opened pool in 3 1/2 years. Never had a pool! Severe help needed

Can you bring us up to speed on the test numbers of your water?

I think that's your first priority.

Most recent numbers I see of relevance are:

TA: 50
CH: 50
pH: 8.2

Sorry if I missed any more recent numbers, or direction you received from others.

My concern here is that you have plaster pool... with some concerning numbers.

The good news is that your high pH is keeping you in the safe zone.

But, if you start to bring your pH down (as you should for better chlorine effectiveness), you will be outside that safe zone.
 
OK... I skimmed through all the posts here... I didn't want to give you the run around on any contradictory advice... Looks like you have mostly been getting your equipment up and running.

Is that all squared away?

If so, let's get another good set of numbers:

CH:
TA:
pH:

I'll assume that your CL and your CYA are zero.

I'd welcome more input, but I really think I'd like to get your CSI in line before you lower your pH.

To do that, you should take your CH up to about 250.
 
will that be going a different direction than the SLAM method?

Absolutely not.

It's just that you are going to want to get your pH down. And:

1) Chlorine is more effective with lower pH
2) You shouldn't really be playing with your pH during a SLAM.

But, with your low TA and CH, if you lower your pH, you will be out of the safe zone for the plaster.

So, before you lower your pH, bring your CH up to about 250. THEN lower your pH... THEN SLAM.

Go over to the pool calculator, and play with the TA, CH and pH numbers and see how it effects your CSI.

I like the classic one myself: http://poolcalculator.com/index-classic.html
 
Ok just so i have this correct because i would definitely like to get this done over this weekend. Get the CH to 250 at least but not too much more. Then get my Ph lower by adding the muriatic acid, then get the FC to shock level of 12 by adding the bleach. While this is all going on i should have the pump running to filter? Also when does CYA need to be added to the equation because its a 0 right now. and while all this is going on i should be vacuuming the pool? Is there anything i should not be doing that i listed or anything extra that needs to be added
 
Sounds like a good plan.

You can start with your CYA in now. Add it to a sock, and hang the sock by your return jets.

I'd run the filter 24/7, and get all the physical stuff out that you can. Whatever you can get out with a net is best.

Be aware that if you are needing to backwash, or vacuum to waste that you will be draining some of your chemicals (CH and CYA)... but don't get too hung up on that. You can fine tune all that after your SLAM. Then, it all starts to become routine.
 

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Not really... for me, ammonia is more of a "boy... this SLAM isn't working... I wonder what's going on" type of problem then a "let's figure it out first" kind of thing.

But, since your pool has been sitting wouldn't hurt to run to the pet store and pick up a test kit.... assuming that you know if your water tables support you draining the pool. If you CAN drain the pool, and you have a bunch of ammonia, you might be better off draining...

Otherwise... you can SLAM down ammonia too.
 
Ok. And I hear a lot of let your pump run 24/7. What if there is clog with filter couldn't that cause massive problems? Also my filter has a valve on top that twists on and off. is there supposed to be a pressure gauge on that? Or is one pressure gauge on the system enough? Could take pictures if I'm being confusing
 
Hi there. You should only need one pressure guage.

I think you need to re-read and absorb my instructions so you understand the best order of approach in your conditions. See below. But first, lets address a few of your additional questions.

1. Yes, you must filter 24/7 for a slam to work. Is the filter working now? To prevent clogs, only have the drain valve a little bit open. Do your best to have netted out any gunk before starting. Watch the filter pressure, and backwash any time it looks like its risen by 25%. In your case, you don't know what it runs at clean, so lets say backwash any time its at about 22.

2. I don't want you to add the cya until AFTER you've done the quick test and reported back, OR picked up an ammonia test stip from a pet store.

Here's why - this pool has putrified for 3.5 years and likely had no FC or CYA on opening. That usually means a type of bacteria has converted the cya to ammonia. If that's the case, and you add cya right now, and the bacteria is still there, it will turn the cya into ammonia and the ammonia level will keep increasing and consuming your chlorine and you won't be able to get to slam level.

So the reason I posted the "quick bleach addition" steps for before you added cya and started the slam was to prevent you from the frustration of making it harder to slam and getting stuck in swampland ;)

If there's no ammonia and the FC holds after the quick-addition test, then you add cya, add your ch, make sure you're at 7.2 ph and start the slam. You're golden.

IF there is ammonia, there will be two ways to go, depending on how much:

1. Break it down until the FC holds, per my instructions below. Then add cya, add calcium, and follow the normal SLAM Process

2. OR since it takes 10 times the chlorine for every ppm of ammonia, if the reading is super high, eg 10 (if you test with a strip) AND if conditions, eg water table, make a water change ok, you might be better off instead renting a trash pump to at least partly drain the pool (getting the gunk off the bottom), then adding more water, doing the now quicker breakdown of ammonia til FC holds, then adding your ch cya and slamming. Or entirely changing the water.

In some conditions, the trash-pump partial water change ends up being cheaper and easier than slamming if high volumes of ammonia are present. But they may not be.

My pool, which was way worse than yours due to 20 wheelbarrows full of leaves, took 12 bags of shock and 5 gallons of liquid 12% chlorine from th pool techs and still read 0 FC until I discovered TFP and took over ;) I'll post a pic to motivate you ;) in my case, if I'd known what I know now, though, a trash pump with a plastic tarp would ave been a bit quicker but I'm on well and in a high water able and was scared to hurt the structure.

So what you need to have on hand is:

Lots of bleach
CYA (but do the test before you add it)
Cacium to raise
Muriatic acid to lower ph
Baking Soda and Washing Soda for adjustment if needed to TA and ph

And for the first few days of slam, you're going to want to babysit that filter. You might need to turn if off now and then to clean out the pump basket.

Hope that helps. Please read over a few times. I have guests in from out of town so I won't be on the forum a lot but I'll try to take a peek in to see how you're doing.
Cheers to clear ;)

image.jpg

Hi again - didnt have a chance to check back again until this a.m. Had company

With metals and a swamp, generally, you address the swamp first, metals later -- you can't treat both normally at the same time, but in this case there are other options to consider.

I have a vinyl pool so I'm actually not certain whether its best to add the calcium now or later but because there are a couple other things we should check on first that I think might help determine whether you should SLAM or consider instead a drain. So hold off on adding CH until we do a test and get the approach sorted out.

Don't put in the CYA just yet, but have it on hand. Be sure to have LOTS of bleach or chlorine (same thing) on hand.

There's a simple test I want you to do first given the number of years you've been closed AND the fact that you reported 0FC and 0 CYA. This happened to me with my swamp

The goal is to determine whether or not the pool has been subject to a phenom where a certain type of bacteria converts the cya to ammonia. Ammonia then "fights" the chlorine, making it impossible to hold at a slam level long enough to sanitize the water...until or unless you break the ammonia down. I'd originally hired pool techs to recover my swamp before finding TFP, and they never got the FC to hold But I was able to eventually. In my case, draining would have been dangerous because I have a high water table, vinyl pool, on well and the pool was built in a former catch basin. And it was spring So I didn't really have a sensible choice but to clear the water I had

With the filter running and your ph adjusted to 7.2, do this test and report back...I'll try to check in more today:

Diagnosing:
1. Test CYA level and record result (you've already done this)
2. With pump running, dose FC to Shock (SLAM) per level per Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart, then retest FC after 10 minutes. If FC level drops by more than 50%, then proceed with treatment for ammonia.

Treatment for Ammonia:
1. Begin a SLAM and dose FC up to SLAM level. Do not add additional CYA at this point.
2. Retest FC at 10-minute intervals.
a. If FC loss is greater than 50%, add FC to bring back up to SLAM level and continue retesting FC @ 10-minute intervals.
b. IF FC loss is 50% or less, add FC to bring back up to SLAM level. Go to Step 3.

***At any point in step A if you make several attempts, it might be worthwhile once you have an indication of possible ammonia to get a cheap aquarium ammonia test from pet store to find out just how much you have.

It takes approximately 10 ppm of chlorine to break down 1 ppm of ammonia. If you had a really high ammonia reading, I would instead consider possibly draining instead, refilling, then finishing with a slam -- this approach may also give an opportunity to reduce any metal concentration and possibly take action on the stains at the same time.

BUT, there are some moving parts here, and my expertise is not plaster pools -- For example, an acid wash will remove stains, but if the plaster is old, this may reduce its lifespan a bit. There is a no-drain acid wash for plaster stains that might be better, and there is also an Ascorbic Acid treatment that can be done. I may need to try to to reach out to a plaster person for advice if your ammonia is super high and if you decide to drain and replace water. I am thinking if you decided to drain that it might make sense to add stain remover (Ascorbic Acid) to the water, let it sit/filter a day, then drain, which should reduce stains.

SO - BACK to the slam scenario so you know what to do if youre lucky and the pool holds FC after a few quick additions. I would add the CH and CYA at that point, then start to slam...be sure to read the SLAM instructions a few times, and don't worry just yet about stains or water tint.

Step 3
3. If CYA is below 30 ppm, add enough CYA to bring level up to 30 ppm.
4. Continue SLAM as directed in the SLAM article until the SLAM Criteria of Done are met. Test as directed in the SLAM article - no longer need to test FC at 10 minute increments at this point.

When you post back, let us know if you're on well or city water, if you know the age of the pool, and if you ave any idea about the water table. If you're able to get a pic of the stain, please post it.

Cheers to clear. I know this is a lot to take in but I'm hoping to save you time and trouble on the front end here
 
awesome thank you so much. going to hit it hard today and tomorrow hopefully. and hopefully last question. the previous owner had left a bunch of chemicals. do these types of chemicals last a long time? or should brand new ones be bought
 
Flimflam22,
Great questions, To do the test for Ammonium use 10 for slam target, not 12. I have read in other threads that 10 is the # used for that. The level will not last that long as even if there is no ammonium the level will decrease within a few hours with sunlight and Algae. As soon as chlorine lasts for 10 min above 50% loss, add the CYA. When you add CYA put it in a sock, hang in front of return and squeeze the sock frequently.
First step get your PH down to 7.2 while getting a good idea of your pool volume as previously explained. Then use 10 as your target for Ammonium test, as soon as you pass ammonium test add CYA and start Slam. If you do not pass Ammonium within a few tries then you have a decision to make as to whether to drain or not. If you do drain, you can acid wash, but I would not based on a friend's experience who did. If you do drain there is a Tarp method that works pretty well if you have a high water table. But can discuss this if you do not pass ammonium.
 
You're going to need to be more specific.
What kind of chemicals?
You don't want to use pucks or powdered shock when slamming, or in general with TFP because it adds cya. The xception is "cal hypo" which is a type of shock hat has calcium instead of cya...which in your case would be fine to use since your ch is too low.

Post pictures of what they left and I'm sure others will chime in.
 
I like Waskydivers advice About adjusting CH and TA first. See Pool Math at bottom of page for CSI. I am used to doing vinyl and do not pay attention to CH too much. But I have read that it is important in Plaster (gunite) pool or it can damage finish. It appears he may know about that. Plus Swampwoman says:
If there's no ammonia and the FC holds after the quick-addition test, then you add cya, add your ch, make sure you're at 7.2 ph and start the slam. You're golden.
So, I would Put in CYA for a 30 ppm level based on what you think the volume is via the sock method. Once added, it may not register for about 7 days, so do not test and add more if under what you think until after a week. At the same time adjust the CH and Ta but I would do it in steps so as to get a good volume of your pool as I outlined previously with acid addition.As yo get CH & TA in range you can start to bring down PH using the CSI index in pool math you stay in safe range for your gunite pool finish. When PH down to 7.2, them SLAM.
 

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