Please help: Decking and plastering phase guidance

robininni

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Gold Supporter
Dec 6, 2016
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Stephenville
My pool build has not been the smoothest. There has been too little beforehand planning, too much 'day of' decision making, not much guidance, and overall poor communication at many of the steps along the way. We are are in the decking phase right now and the PB is trying to move on to the plaster phase but here are my present concerns:

The decking is supposed to be two tone stamped concrete. It was poured and stamped (they stamped for the surface texture but then actually hand created the flagstone pattern grout lines because they said it would look more realistic), then two days later someone came out and pressure washed off the powder. We were very excited to see what they two tone grey (light and dark) stone looked like and ran out to look after the guy left. We were very disappointed to find the stone pattern looked just one color and it is nearly as dark as the powder that he washed off. Furthermore there are tons of little cracks near what would be the grout lines in numerous areas and the hand drawn grout lines have lots of blemishes (fins, cracking, some parts don't connect up well). So I got in touch with the PB and told him the concerns and that he should come see it as it appears just one color, way too dark, and overall looks terrible. Time was of the essence, in my opinion, as he had the Crystal Rock aggregate lined up to be installed on the gunite the next day. He said he'd have to check with the sub about my concerns. After getting in touch with the sub, the PB then told me the sub said the 2nd color would be done at the sealing phase (without really understanding the typical process, I had actually offered this idea as maybe why it didn't look right now when questioning whether two colors were used) and to not worrying about the little cracks as they would not show up after sealing. He was also going to have the sub call me. The explanation didn't sound right to me as I had now done quite a bit of internet research on stamped colored concrete and since the sub never called that day and I still had my doubts, the next morning I told the PB that I didn't want the plaster crew to come that day (they were on their way) until we discussed the decking more. He cancelled the plaster crew and then the sub called and so I told the sub all my concerns. The sub told me that all the finishing work (correcting the fins, blemishes, etc.) would take place when they finished up the deck after 28 days of curing when they seal it. I told him it was too dark and I was worried the sealer would make it all even darker and he said that it will make the dark areas darker and the light areas lighter. He said that before sealing, they will acid wash it and it will look fabulous and we'll see the light color that doesn't show up now and he can lighten it as much as we want at that time.

Maybe this works, but it doesn't seem to be how it is typically done based upon my research. Should I be concerned?

Secondly, I am worried to allow the crystal rock aggregate to be installed on the gunite and proceeding with finishing the pool when the decking is not finished satisfactorily yet. I worry about this upcoming acid wash on the decking and getting that in the pool water and whatever else may occur to the decking which may or may not have the potential of hurting another finished area or getting nasty stuff in the pool water and that cycling through pumps and filters. Should I be worried? Should the decking be completely finished first before moving on to the plastering phase and filling the pool or does it matter?

Thank you ahead of time for your knowledge and help. Here are few pictures of the decking as it currently is:

CIMG2076.jpg

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There are quite a few pools that get done down to having water in them and swimming happening before the decking is even started.

I will not comment on the coloring of the deck as I am not really sure how it should be done. I do know I would hold back money until it is how you want it.

Let us know what ends up happening.

Kim:kim:
 
One issue to consider is your draw schedule in your contract. For example, if the contract provides final payment (or another major payment) is due at plaster, I would want the PB to correct / complete the deck first.
 
Plaster is going to be the last thing on my build. I'm an owner builder in Socal and decking is going in now. The pebble tech sub I'm using wouldn't start the project until everything even the fence was complete. Admittedly my schedule is driven by Building Depth inspections needing everything done before filling, but we also talked about not having any unnecessary dirt, chemicals or concrete materials being manipulated during the finish phase. I'd ask them to finish decking before moving on to plaster. No reason not to.
 
Why with the deep joints are there control lines?

It doesn't look good that for sure -- looks very amateur.

Do you have pictures of what it was supposed to like like?

Someone needs to come out an explain orally then in writing what they are going to do to make it right.

I would withhold payment until you get it as you expect. But that could turn into an ugly battle.
 
Wet the surface with water and that will mimic the effect of the sealer. Should give you an idea of how it will look, although not exactly due to the acid wash. It sounds like the used a color hardner that was trowled into the wet concrete ( this is typically the lighter color) and a release color when stamping (typically the darker as an accent) the release is what is washed off. Then there are two kinds of joints, decorative joints that can run any direction and varying depths as this is cosmetic, the control joints will be straight and and will "force" the concrete to Crack in a specific area. It appears that they "tooled" the control joints. While many feel a quickie saw is the best method for making control joints a tooled joint is also acceptable.

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Why with the deep joints are there control lines?

It doesn't look good that for sure -- looks very amateur.

Do you have pictures of what it was supposed to like like?

Someone needs to come out an explain orally then in writing what they are going to do to make it right.

I would withhold payment until you get it as you expect. But that could turn into an ugly battle.

I thought about the depth of the control lines versus the 'stone' junctions as well. They are essentially the same depth. I thought that maybe they are going to go back and saw the control joints after 28 days?? They apparently get the desired color through acid washing and that will take place before sealing and supposedly the concreted will be prettied up at this time too (fins, other ugly grout line issues). It's just not the way I have read it is normally done and with other poor communication issues on this job I was/am concerned. I guess we'll see in other 15-20 days.

Here's a picture that the sub sent me and supposedly, with the colors we chose, this is what the finished product will look like:

IMG_3604_zps2i6ndck9.jpg
 
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It has been about a little more than 30 days since our concrete decking was pour and stamped. After the concrete pour and stamping a month ago, we were concerned with how dark the gray was the concrete guy chose for us but when we asked about this the concrete guy had told us we could lighten the grey as much as we wanted during the acid wash process. So today, a 2 man crew from the concrete company came back out today to finish the job. They poured a muriatic acid/water combo on the decking and then used a water hose to rinse it off. I quickly found out that what the concrete guy had told us was not true as the color of the decking was not getting any lighter than the base gray they used during this was and the 2 guys confirmed this was the case. More acid just removed more of the darker tone and too much takes too much of it away from the creases so it starts to look mono tone again like it has since they poured/stamped it a month ago, just now it would be the lighter of the two grays rather than the darker releasing agent color. So, anyway, the first disappointment of the day was that it wasn't really going to get a lot lighter in base gray color.

After the acid washing the guys then dried it with a leaf blower and sealed it. It didn't look like they were going to do any finishing work to fix the fins and other imperfections in the grout lines like the concrete guy said they would when I voiced that concern a few days after the initial pour/stamping. I asked the two guys today about this and they just sort of shrugged and didn't have an answer.

The last concern was all the little cracks that are here and there mainly near grout lines. This too was brought up with the concrete guy had told us it would be taken care of with the seal (like you wouldn't see them at this point). Well... they are still just as visible after the seal. I also noticed the guys sealed in sand/dirt in many areas in the grout lines because they didn't power wash it and only rinsed it with a garden hose.

From a distance (last picture), if you were happy with the color choices, it doesn't look terrible I guess, but it still looks sort of monotone as those 2 colors don't really pop until you are on the deck. Up close you see the 2 colors better, but I don't think it looks good and it's the finish work--rough grout lines, lines that don't meet up right, fins, all these little cracks. Now, I am a picky person, that's a given, but surely this isn't quality stamped concrete work? So what do you think? Acceptable? Good? Worth hassling over more? At this point I think the concrete guy (owner) is either incompetent with esthetic work and doesn't realize it can be done much cleaner/neater or lies and just doesn't care, maybe some of both. Here are some pictures:










 
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Just my honest personal opinion.... The long distance pictures of the decking with the pool in them, the concrete looks great to me. That's because I know that it is stamped concrete. Just like everyone else does, because you will never confuse stamped concrete that mimics stone with real stone. Seriously, it does look good and when you landscape around the pool, it will look even better. Maybe if it wasn't so cold, you could jump in the pool and remember why you built the pool... to relax and enjoy.

I have serious OCD over things I do, but I realized years ago when i let others do the work, I have to lower my expectations. In the end, you decide what is acceptable to you...

Also... #1 truth about concrete is... All concrete cracks!!
 
Also... #1 truth about concrete is... All concrete cracks!!

I appreciate your opinion, but the bit about all concrete cracking is generally speaking to fractures occurring down the road, long term in nature, not ones showing the day of the pour. The cracks I'm talking about were all visible the day of the pour. I think they are created by the crew making the grout lines with there fingers/instruments and this pulling on the adjacent concrete and stretching it and separating it creating the cracks. These could have been hammered closed the next day as at least one youtube stamped concrete video shows being done.
 
The small cracks would bug me but unless they in fact indicate a potentially more serious crack over time, I would not worry about it. I think the photos of the pool showing the whole patio area look very nice. Once you have landscaping and furniture out, I think it will look really good.
 
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