Plaster Etching, staining or BOTH?

[AmyCJeff]

I would test CH again, just to confirm the 1575 is correct. That's one of the highest I recall seeing, but if correct, would help explain the staining and scale.

You'll need to address the CH and CYA, at the same time, with a water exchange. By effectively dumping most of the problem water, you'll set your self up for better success, and easier management. Once you confirm CH, report back, but CH will dictate how much replacement you need. The good news is that replacement of water is super easy, nor that expensive.

TA is not a huge issue and will likely reduce with water exchange - TA simply encourages pH to rise. You then add acid, pH rises again, and you repeat process. There's no need to be aggressive, just let it change, add acid, rinse and repeat. You'll eventually find the point where the TA is happy and pH stops changing.

Once you've replaced water to get CYA and CH to normal ranges, you might consider a small SLAM, but with mostly fresh water it'll be easy.

Thank you for responding I actually did the CH test twice...as I thought I messed up. I am going to guess the the Shock in the pool is impacting that figure at the moment. But, unfortunately I would say it's safe to say it's pretty accurate.

So the CH & CYA is step #1 - Gotcha. Off to read how do that and how much I need to replace

 

[reggiehammond]

Thank you for responding I actually did the CH test twice...as I thought I messed up. I am going to guess the the Shock in the pool is impacting that figure at the moment. But, unfortunately I would say it's safe to say it's pretty accurate.

So the CH & CYA is step #1 - Gotcha. Off to read how do that and how much I need to replace

Unless the CH is not mixed and you're getting an overly concentrated sample, then that is your result. CH never leaves, it can't evaporate, so you're stuck with it at 3x normal levels right now.

Test your fill water for CH - report back. If it's high in CH, then that will dictate how much to drain. If it's not high in CH, then you won't need to replace as much.

 

[AmyCJeff]

Unless the CH is not mixed and you're getting an overly concentrated sample, then that is your result. CH never leaves, it can't evaporate, so you're stuck with it at 3x normal levels right now.

Test your fill water for CH - report back. If it's high in CH, then that will dictate how much to drain. If it's not high in CH, then you won't need to replace as much.

EDITED TO ADD : tested fill Water...it is measuring CH = 280. Per the calculation...I need to replace 86% (15,500 galloons)....yikes!!!

I have a question about the "replacement" process. I have read the "no drain/refill" link several times and I am still struggling. Can anyone "dumb" it down for me? Here is what I am thinking will work:

1) Turn the Pool pump off for 24 hrs
2) Use the Siphon method (using a hose drain water out of the pool into our sewer system) What is the galloon rate per hour?
3) Put the hose in the deepest part of our pool
4) turn on autofill (I don't know what the fill rate per hour is?)
5) If the drain rate and fill rate are relatively the same....this should work, right? I know it will be slow...but I am OK with that
7) Continue this process until the amount of galloons that needs to be drained has been met.

Would this work?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

You mention dark stains also? Those *might* be from the Ozone device. I would turn that off entirely. Liquid Chlorine (or installing a salt system) will be your best friends for sanitation.

Maddie

 

[clambert1273]

EDITED TO ADD : tested fill Water...it is measuring CH = 280. Per the calculation...I need to replace 86% (15,500 galloons)....yikes!!!

I have a question about the "replacement" process. I have read the "no drain/refill" link several times and I am still struggling. Can anyone "dumb" it down for me? Here is what I am thinking will work:

1) Turn the Pool pump off for 24 hrs
2) Use the Siphon method (using a hose drain water out of the pool into our sewer system) What is the galloon rate per hour?
3) Put the hose in the deepest part of our pool
4) turn on autofill (I don't know what the fill rate per hour is?)
5) If the drain rate and fill rate are relatively the same....this should work, right? I know it will be slow...but I am OK with that
7) Continue this process until the amount of galloons that needs to be drained has been met.

Would this work?

To drain get a small utility pump

For exchanging you need a hose connected to a small utility pump that can get to an area to drain (most use sewer cleanout but I ran to my laundry room sink). Then you try and keep output & filling equal. If you use a 5 gallon bucket & time how fast it pumps out & how fast hose fills in you can calculate how many gallons per minute & figure out an approximate how long it will take to exchange

Here is how I had mine

 

[AmyCJeff]

To drain get a small utility pump

For exchanging you need a hose connected to a small utility pump that can get to an area to drain (most use sewer cleanout but I ran to my laundry room sink). Then you try and keep output & filling equal. If you use a 5 gallon bucket & time how fast it pumps out & how fast hose fills in you can calculate how many gallons per minute & figure out an approximate how long it will take to exchange

Here is how I had mine
View attachment 500581

View attachment 500582

Thank you That makes sense. I get the idea that as long as I drain the water at the same rate as I am filling it...it should all work out. But I don't understand how I avoid potentially pumping out water that I just put in? Also, you leave the pool pump off during this process, correct? We have the idea that half way through the process, we will test the CH level...in theory it should be way lower than when I started. At the end of the process we will check again. If it is still too high, we basically repeat the process. Using the new CH figure to determine how water we need to drain and replace? Hopefully, if we did it right the first time, we won't need to

 

[mknauss]

Read Draining - Further Reading

 

[AmyCJeff]

Read Draining - Further Reading

I have read this several times...and I am still a bit confused....lol!! But, I think I am close to understanding. See my post above and let me know if you agree

 

[mknauss]

But I don't understand how I avoid potentially pumping out water that I just put in?

As stated in the Draining article, you place the pump in the position that is shown based on the use of TDS and which water is more dense, the fill water or pool water. Your pool water will be more dense due to the very high CH and likely salinity.

Also, you leave the pool pump off during this process, correct?

Yes. As stated in the article.

We have the idea that half way through the process, we will test the CH level...in theory it should be way lower than when I started.

No. You run the exchange to completion. Read the article.

 

[AmyCJeff]

As stated in the Draining article, you place the pump in the position that is shown based on the use of TDS and which water is more dense, the fill water or pool water. Your pool water will be more dense due to the very high CH and likely salinity.

Yes. As stated in the article.

No. You run the exchange to completion. Read the article.

I think the TDS calculation is what confuses me. I don’t think my test kit has a way to measure that…so I don’t really have a way to figure that out. As far as running to completion, totally understand that. I was just thinking testing half way through would confirm we were headed in the right direction. But, basically, in our case we need to drain from the deepest part and fill at the shallowest part, the skimmer basket. By doing this…you can minimize “mixing” of old and new water. I think I am just trying to take in so much information right now that I’m missing a few of the details….thank you for your patience.

 

[mknauss]

TDS is a compilation of the solids in your water. The primary ones are Calcium and Salt. Your CH level dominates. The temperature of your fill and pool water is likely close. If anything the pool water is likely cooler than the fill water. Check that.

 

[RookiePick]

I think the TDS calculation is what confuses me. I don’t think my test kit has a way to measure that…so I don’t really have a way to figure that out. As far as running to completion, totally understand that. I was just thinking testing half way through would confirm we were headed in the right direction. But, basically, in our case we need to drain from the deepest part and fill at the shallowest part, the skimmer basket. By doing this…you can minimize “mixing” of old and new water. I think I am just trying to take in so much information right now that I’m missing a few of the details….thank you for your patience.

There is no point to trying to test the water part way through. The entire process is predicated on minimising the mixing of the pool water and the new fill water during the process.

This is why you want to do the desired exchange volume in one continuous process as once the water mixes up you remove proportionally less of the old, problematic pool water if you start again.

Make sure you understand the principle of what you are trying to do before you take action.

 

[AmyCJeff]

I took a step back and then came back and re-read the "no drain/fill" method again. I think it has all finally clicked! The whole process is designed to minimize mixing of old and new water so that you are only draining the old, while at the same time maintaining the water level in the pool. And yes, when it all clicked I realized that testing half way through would not make sense (as I would only be able to test the water closest to the top of the pool...and if the process is being done right...that would be the "old" water...which would still measure high). We bought a pump and we will hopefully be starting the process in the next few days. I will report back once the process is complete Again, thank you for everyone's help! Once I get the CH & CYA levels within normal range I think the other one will be much easier to address/manage. And in the end....maybe even get rid of the staining

 

[AmyCJeff]

Ok....we FINALLY are able to start the No-Drain/Refill process (we had family in town over the weekend). Pool Filter had been off for 24+ hrs. We started the draining/refill process today (tuesday) at 3:15 PST. Pump it at the deepest part of the pool pumping out 5 galloons per minute. Fill hose is in skimmer basket, pumping in at 5 galloons per minute. Based on our calculations, to replace 15,000 galloons of water it will take 50 hrs (83% of our water)! I am debating just replacing the final 17% (3,000 galloons), which will take an additional 10 hrs. I will report back Friday night/Saturday morning with the new test results! Again....Thank you everyone for your help. I am sure I will need more guidance once I have the new test results

 

[AmyCJeff]

We did move the fill hose FROM the skimmer basket area to the top step furthest away from our deep end (which is where the pump is at). I realized our skimmer basket is located right where the deepest part of our pool is, although at the surface. the pump was very close to this, but at the bottom of the pool. I felt the two were too close together.

 

[mknauss]

Sorry no one got back to you last night.
When you moved the hose to the top step, did you put the hose end in a bucket or something so the water gently rolled in to the pool? Any thing to lessen the disturbance of the water is preferred.

 

[AmyCJeff]

No worries I figured it was late I did not have a clean a bucket that I could use (it was late and dark), but the step is actually a huge swim deck, so I had it pointed in such a way that minimized the flow of water to the pool area. I will be cleaning out a bucket this morning in order to do that.
Also...we ended up ordering a submersible pump (the other one we were using was getting pretty hot and I was not sure it would make it the full 50hrs..ekk!). I started the new pump at 7:45am this morning (in the deep end). It pumps 6 gal per minute and we were able to adjust the fill hose to 6 gal per minute as well. So, the process is being sped up a tad.

EDITED TO ADD: in regards to moving the fill hose from the skimmer to the top step (Without a bucket). I kind of felt like I had to pick the "lessor of two evils". Keep the fill hose in the skimmer close to the pump (and risk pumping out the new water that was being put in) or move it to the step without a bucket and cause some disturbance (only 5 gal per minutes...so not a horrible amount of force). I opted for the latter.... I am hoping this choice had minimal impact on the overall fill process. Fingers crossed.

 

[AmyCJeff]

Ok..at the new pump rate I will be done with 15,000galloons around 1:15pm tomorrow (less than 24 hrs away...yay!). I have decided to go ahead and replace the remaining 2,000 galloons..so I should finish around 6:00pm. Once the process is complete I would like to know my next steps:

1) Do I test once the process is complete?
2) OR do I turn the pump back on and if so for how long, before I test?


Once I have my results, I will use my Muriatic acid and liquid chlorine to get the chemicals to ideal ranges, correct? Someone mentioned SLAM ing the pool. I will go see what I can find on that.

 

[mknauss]

1) Do I test once the process is complete?
2) OR do I turn the pump back on and if so for how long, before I test?

Turn the pool pump on and really brush the pool well. Let the pump run for a couple hours (overnight would be great- do you have a VS pump? Low speed is fine).
Then run a complete test of the water chemistry. I would have Stabilizer (enough for 50 ppm CYA), muriatic acid, and liquid chlorine on hand.

 

[AmyCJeff]

Thank you for the reply! Yes, we have a VS pump and low is 25%.

This?

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