Pebble plaster mix?

tomfrh

0
Jan 30, 2018
566
Australia
I want to try pebblecreting our spa. I've done rendering, and have seen them do pebble application, and would like to try myself. What's the actual mix they use? I know it contain cement and pebbles, but am not sure what else, and am not sure of the ratios.

Any help would be appreciated!
 
What's the actual mix they use? I know it contain cement and pebbles, but am not sure what else, and am not sure of the ratios.
I think that is probably a well protected trade secret and you might as well be asking for the recipe for Coke or what the Colonels 11 secret spices are. Obviously the basis is cement and pebbles but then there are probably a bunch of admixtures we never heard of and have no way of sourcing. Are you wanting to do it yourself to save money or is it just something you are interested in trying? (full disclosure, I am a big do it yourself-er and won't pay somebody to do something I can figure out how to do myself. however, even I would draw the line at self plastering a pool or spa.)
 
D_red,

Yes I suspect it’s a bit secret.

The main question I have is the ratios of pebbles to cement, and whether any sand is added. I’ll probably add some acrylic/latex admix to improve adhesion/workabilty.

I’ve seen a few references of 2:1 pebbles to cement, which makes sense, although I was expecting fines as well.

I might go look at a few pools with a magnifying glass and inspect the composition.

It is just something I am interested in trying. Saving money is a bonus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CA_Tallguy
I have been told the usual mix is pebbles, cement, and sometimes PVA admix (e.g. cemstik or bondcrete). Pebble to cement ratio from 2:1 (2 pebble 1 cement) to 1:1. More cement is reportedly stronger.

I will do some test batches and see if it's feasible or if I'm kidding myself.
 
@tomfrh Did you end up figuring out the mix? I'd love to know! I don't think there is anything too magical about it. There are plenty of people doing pebble finishes and other companies selling systems and pebble aggregates. The general formula must be pretty well known.

Edit: I see a little info posted about your tests in these threads where you say "Blue circle White Portland cement plus sky pebble pebblesheen in 2:1 ratio of pebbles:concrete. No accelerant calcium based or otherwise."

Anything to add? Did you add any color, sand or admixures? Would you change anything if doing it again?
 
Last edited:
Anything to add? Did you add any color, sand or admixures? Would you change anything if doing it again?

Since my post I have pebbled our spa myself, and had our pool professionally repebbled, and watched two pools get pebbled. The spa worked fine, and I was considering doing the pool, but it would have taken me too long to do myself.

I didn’t add colour but it is common to add oxides to white cement to adjust the colour.

I didn’t add admix, but PVA admix is common in the undercoat , (more below)

The basic mix in Australia tends to be 2 pebble to 1 white (or off white) cement. Different pebble crews tweak it slightly depending, but that’s the basic ratio.

The pros tend to do an undercoat/bondcoat which is a wet broomable mix of cement, water, coarse sand or pebble, and lots of PVA (despite these products forbidding use in pools). This provides a sticky rough “key” for the final coat. They mix this in big rubber tubs with “egg beater” style mixers and slop it on with soft brooms. They let this set for a day or two. The PVA seems to prevent this thin mix from drying and flaking off too quickly.

Different applicators mix and apply the main coat differently. In Australia is it done fairly manual. Some applicators dump all the dry material in the shallow end of pool, add water and mix with shovels into one big pile, then trowel it up the walls. Others use a standard cement mixer and do batches, which they dump into the pool as they go.

Once it’s troweled on and hard enough they expose the pebbles with a gerni with fan head, followed by acid wash.

It’s a bit of an art to doing the gerni. If it’s too soon it all falls apart when you spray it. Too late and the cement is too hard to wash off. If not dove evenly you get very inconsistent pebble exposure.
When doing the spa I used sponges to reveal pebbles, and acid wash, which is easier to control, but not as fast as gerni. Foam paint rollers are common too to expose pebbles.

Spray application of the pebble mix is less common in Australia. In America it’s more common I believe. A pebble applicator told me in America they use a richer 1:1 ratio, and spray it on, and that they wash out more of the cement during pebble exposure. In any case I can assure you 2:1 works when mixed and applied manually.

Pros use calcium chloride accelerator to speed up the set time, so they can apply and expose in a controlled time period.

They also sometimes use air entraining agents to aid workability.


They also use polymer admix when using glass beads, to help it stick together properly. Eg here: Learning Library

You don’t use sand, except in the undercoat to add a rough key. You can use pebbles in the undercoat in the same way, it’s just that sand is cheaper.

All in all, it only needs to be pebble and cement on suitable substrate.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CA_Tallguy
Fantastic info, @tomfrh -- much appreciated!

For the pebbles, do you have any advice about shape? I thought rounded/smooth river rock was used in all of these mixes but then I got to looking at our Pebble Tec more closely and it appears to be a bit coarse. I found some New Zealand river pebbles at the pet store made for aquariums and it seems to be a pretty good match for color, but possibly more round than the pebble tec. Or maybe it just looks like that because parts of the aggregate are covered with concrete. (It feels like it could actually be coarse underfoot when dry.) I am going out to a few distributors to look at straight coarse silica to compare.

Any thoughts on coarse vs smooth for how they will work in a coating?

img_8549-jpg.393027
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
The type and shape of pebble makes a huge difference to how it feels. A lot of the white “pebble” is crushed quartz, which can be quite rough as it hasn’t been thru as much rolling/tumbling as river pebbles. The natural pebbles are generally better as they’ve rolled down rivers. Smoothest is glass, as it’s very smooth and spherical.

I used the 3mm pebble sheen. Oddly enough it is rougher than the pool we had in the 80s, which had larger (6mm) but smoother pebbles.

All the pebbles adhere with the cement ok, but obviously rougher more angular pebbles will adhere better than perfectly round and smooth ones. The glass is tricker due to the extreme smoothness, and the professionals use admix to make it stick together better when they use large amounts of glass beads, otherwise the whole thing can fall apart prior to setting.

Some contractors Polish/hone pebble finishes prior to filling, to make it smoother.

If I had to do the whole pool again I’d use 100% glass pebbles, as it’s quite a bit smoother than pebbles.


What are you trying to achieve?
 
I want to try pebblecreting our spa. I've done rendering, and have seen them do pebble application, and would like to try myself. What's the actual mix they use? I know it contain cement and pebbles, but am not sure what else, and am not sure of the ratios.

Any help would be appreciated!
I'm no expert by any means. However, I just spent a great amount of time this past Wednesday talking to a professional pool interior instructor. It's a mix of water, portland cement, sand and some type of aggregate. However, there are many formulas involved when it comes to additives (silica powder, color powder pigments, pebble, sand, glass beads, etc.). Also, the method that you chose to use to apply the cement whether it be gunite or shotcrete. I'm sure there are some professional plaster individuals on here that can help. You can also call places that spray the interior to get their professional advice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CA_Tallguy
What are you trying to achieve?
At the moment, just trying to cook up some patching material for a couple spots that have delaminated. So right now just trying to decide about mixing our own patch, using EZ-Patch #9 or Pool Patch, or calling in a contractor. We just successfully did some concrete repairs and have all our tools out so if we know what to use we could probably swing it.

EZ-Patch says "This product contains a special acrylic modified material with pozzolans (siliceous volcanic ash). After doing repairs, water may be refilled the next day. Liquid Acrylic Bonder is included in the kit. Our formula is stronger than original pool plaster or replaster materials." (The product costs $10-20 per pound which is quite a premium for the special acrylic admix!). Doing some research on pozzolan cement leads me to "Type IP" cement and ATSM C595 for Blended Hydraulic Cements.

I am thinking about using Sika 107 as a waterproofing layer and then go over it with 1:1 mix of aggregate to (white?) portland + color/acrylic admix.

See below for examples of the material that came off. One piece has been in muriatic acid and the other has not. It looks like the aggregate is a lot more rounded than I expected. The acid took of a good layer of material off the surface, and a good start on any shell concrete that was still attached. Perhaps the reaction will keep going if I refresh the acid. But you can tell on the back side photo that it clearly is not working as well from the backside. Maybe it is hitting PVA on the back? I have some chunks soaking in a bucket and will check them in a bit. The acid is turning that yellowish/orange color.

I'm a bit confused as to the surface layer being eaten away by the acid, and being a different color. Is that likely the same as the yellowish/brownish material but just aged? I suppose there is a chance they coated the surface with something different and then exposed that?

But so far, I am thinking the base/binder material may have some admixtures, maybe is polymer modified or something. Does "polymer modified" concrete resist acid? This study abstract says it is more resistant to some acids.


IMG_8572.jpgIMG_8575.jpg

AFTER MATERIAL WAS DRY:

IMG_8577.jpgIMG_8578.jpg
 
Last edited:
The type and shape of pebble makes a huge difference to how it feels. A lot of the white “pebble” is crushed quartz, which can be quite rough as it hasn’t been thru as much rolling/tumbling as river pebbles. The natural pebbles are generally better as they’ve rolled down rivers. Smoothest is glass, as it’s very smooth and spherical.

I used the 3mm pebble sheen. Oddly enough it is rougher than the pool we had in the 80s, which had larger (6mm) but smoother pebbles.

All the pebbles adhere with the cement ok, but obviously rougher more angular pebbles will adhere better than perfectly round and smooth ones. The glass is tricker due to the extreme smoothness, and the professionals use admix to make it stick together better when they use large amounts of glass beads, otherwise the whole thing can fall apart prior to setting.

Some contractors Polish/hone pebble finishes prior to filling, to make it smoother.

If I had to do the whole pool again I’d use 100% glass pebbles, as it’s quite a bit smoother than pebbles.


What are you trying to achieve?
Thank you so much for your input on the aggregate. I think we're going with WetEdge Prism. Do you know anything about the texture? I like my toes. lol
 
kimkatz,
I'm not sure about the cute design part. lol I designed it the only way it would fit within our easements in the backyard. Like I said, this river is being built with meaning behind it. Honestly, our number one goal is to have my father in law enjoy it prior to his Parkinson's disease getting worse. I'm just a good ole' country girl that was brought into the city. I hope that you're having a great weekend so far. :)
 
We initially chose to add glass to a signature color but switched to prism line. Our texture is great. Glass is so nice in the pebble—a subtle bling especially since we did not do glass tiles.
Oh I'm so glad to hear your input. Being that I like my toes, I was about to put in polished aggregate or quartz. I want this interior finish to last forever. What color did you chose to go with? Let me guess....Indigo? I'm leaning towards Southern Lights. I want to see pictures of your pool. I bet it's beautiful.
 
I've been researching pozzolan based on EZ-Patch listing it as a component, but am having a hard time locating much product to purchase. The easiest place to find some may be via concrete countertop supply merchants. I don't know what level of waterproofing/watertightness it provides but it might be the main or perhaps only waterproofing component in EZ-Patch. Maybe also in some of the Pebble-tec/PebbleCrete systems?

Something like Sikacrete M-100 sounds awesome but I have not located anywhere to buy it. I have purchased Sika from WhiteCap and another concrete supply but they do not list it on their sites. From Sika product info:
  • Uses: Sikacrete® M-100 is highly reactive metakaolin pozzolan for portland cement concrete, grouts and mortar, and is recommended for all high performance, high strength concrete and cementitious applications. Sikacrete® M-100 is highly beneficial for concrete that needs to resist water and chemical ingress and concrete required to resist mechanical abrasion. Due to its cream white color, Sikacrete® M-100 is also suitable to produce colored concrete and architectural precast concrete products.
  • How it works: Sikacrete® M-100 is a pozzolanic material, it is produced by thermally activating kaolin clay to produce an amorphous and chemically reactive material. Unlike other supplementary cementitious materials like flyash, slag and silica fume, Sikacrete® M-100 is not a byproduct, it is specifically manufactured to its specification that improve the properties of concrete. The average particle size of Sikacrete® M-100 is 5 μm.
  • Pozzolanic action: Sikacrete® M-100 reacts with the free lime, Ca (OH)2 produced during the hydration process of cement to produce Calcium Aluminates and additional Calcium Silicate hydrates which is responsible for the strength of the cementitious mixture or concrete.
  • Void Reduction: The fine particles of Sikacrete® M-100 fill the tiny voids and capillary pores within the cement matrix and significantly reduce porosity to produce an extremely dense and impermeable concrete.
  • Dosage: Typical dosage rates range between 7 to 15 % of the total cementitious mass. Higher dosages up 25 % may be used for improved performance or to meet specific project requirements. S
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.