Pebble Install on New Pool Looks Inconsistent

[stonecutter79]

Long time reader, first time poster here.

We are wrapping up construction of a pool at our new house and have noticed some variation in the color and consistency of our pebble installation.

The variation looked pretty obvious immediately after the plaster, and i was thinking (hoping?) that it would even out after the acid wash and hot start. We are on day 3 of the hot start and the problem areas are becoming more prominent. It seems like this is a problem that should be addressed, but this is my first pool build. My old PebbleTec pool in Arizona had none of these issues- but we didn't build that one so i'm not sure.

The pebble type is NPT StoneScapes Midnight Blue.

Here is the time line so far:
4/8 - pebble installed
4/9 - acid wash and fill started
4/10 - fill complete
4/11 - PB added acid for "hot start"
4/18 - PB scheduled to neutralize acid and "start up" the pool

Thanks in advance!

 

[Toxophilite]

I'd say something was going on with applicator's gun. Inconsistent pebble coverage is not going self-correct.

 

[stonecutter79]

Thanks Toxophilite- I had a bad feeling it might be something like that. I wasn't sure if the pebbles in that area were missing or if they weren't exposed and are under some of the concrete. I will be having some words with the PB on Monday...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

That looks more like an inconsistent acid etch/removal of the plaster cream, not a variation in the pebble density. I wouldn’t go off half-cocked with guns blazing on this one. It could still be corrected with some localized acid washing or even mechanical sanding in those areas.

@AQUA~HOLICS or @onBalance , what do you guys think?

 

[stonecutter79]

Thanks JoyfulNoise, that makes me feel better. Taking another look at the before/after acid wash photos I can definitely see what you are saying about a possible inconsistent acid etch/removal of the plaster cream.

 

[kimkats]

Have you been brushing the pool? Have you paid extra attention to those areas?

When you talk to the PB do more listening than talking with a pad of paper to write what he says. Just point to the areas and see what he says.

We are here to help support you and help you learn how to care for your new pool when it is time for you to take over.

 

[Toxophilite]

There's also the possibility that excessive localized troweling pushed the aggregate too deep in those areas, exposing more base. Agree that if aggregate could be made uniform in those areas in exposure without much collateral damage your color variation would be better.

 

[stonecutter79]

I have been brushing twice a day per the PB's instructions, and I have been putting extra effort into the problem areas. I sent the PB some photos and he said that this is normal and to stay the course with the hot start / twice daily brushing. He is also going to send someone out to look at it and I will definitely listen to what they have to say about it. He suggested that sometimes they have to "hit them a little harder with acid."

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I have been brushing twice a day per the PB's instructions, and I have been putting extra effort into the problem areas. I sent the PB some photos and he said that this is normal and to stay the course with the hot start / twice daily brushing. He is also going to send someone out to look at it and I will definitely listen to what they have to say about it. He suggested that sometimes they have to "hit them a little harder with acid."

I think whoever did the acid etch after the plaster application did a rushed job. You can clearly see the broom streaks. When my plaster was acid etched, the guys took their time and clearly had to go over several areas with a few passes to make sure the plaster cream was uniformly removed. I still, to this day, have a few small patches of the plaster surface, less than the size of the palm of my hand, that look as though there isn’t enough aggregate but they are in inconspicuous areas and no one notices them but me.

It is fixable, you just need to stay on the builder about it. Careful with acid washing though, it’s very aggressive and it can easily over-etch the plaster and remove aggregate. Ask them if the areas can be sanded mechanically. There are water driven sanders that can make quick work of small areas.

 

[stonecutter79]

Thanks for the tip on the water driven sanders. I will definitely ask if they can sand it rather than add more acid.

 

[onBalance]

Power sanding a pebble finish is problematic. Power sanding works better with smooth plaster and quartz finishes.
The workmanship and appearance of this pool appears to have some problems. Work with the pool builder and allow him to remedy the inconsistent color and pebble exposure.
Also, keep an eye on the "blue" color as it might fade and disappear within a few months (colorfast issue), and leaving it a more gray color overall. Interestingly, the fading of the blue color might eventually create a more consistent and uniform appearance.

 

[stonecutter79]

Power sanding a pebble finish is problematic. Power sanding works better with smooth plaster and quartz finishes.
The workmanship and appearance of this pool appears to have some problems. Work with the pool builder and allow him to remedy the inconsistent color and pebble exposure.
Also, keep an eye on the "blue" color as it might fade and disappear within a few months (colorfast issue), and leaving it a more gray color overall. Interestingly, the fading of the blue color might eventually create a more consistent and uniform appearance.

Thank you for your input on this. I will certainly keep an eye on the color- hopefully it does fade over time. I have had a few other workmanship issues with this builder that seems to stem from them not inspecting the work of their subs. As JoyfulNoise said, it looks like the acid etch was a rush job.

If the PB wants to throw more acid at it, should I push back on that idea? From what I’ve read from folks in this thread and other threads, it seems best to limit aggressive water in the pool.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

The only consistency in an exposed aggregate finish is its inconsistency, unfortunately the photos show an area that is lacking aggregate at the surface. The butter needs to be removed in these areas to expose more aggregate but this process may be more harmful to the rest of the surrounding finish.
The fact that you noticed the area immediately after the application may indicate a workmanship mixture/application problem.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If they can spot treat the areas of the plaster with acid while water is still in the pool (there are tools for doing that too), then it could be done in a controlled way that can limit any collateral damage to adjacent areas. What you really don't want is them draining the pool and then doing a massive acid wash of the whole thing which will just weaken the parts of the finish that already ok. This is a repair/rework job that takes finesse ... you don't want them just sending over some gofer to do a quick and dirty job. Try to get as much detail as you can from the builder on what options he's proposing and what he thinks would work best and why. Don't be afraid to ask to have the plaster applicator come look at it too. That sub might have some other ideas. If you need to throw a little extra money at them to pay for someone's time, don't get too upset at that. You want this fixed RIGHT, not FAST. Be flexible with the builder and always make sure that he is the one proposing the solutions and what he thinks success would look like and then hold him to it. You don't ever want to push your own idea/solution and them have the guy do it only to have a failure put back on you for "forcing them" to do it your way.

 

[stonecutter79]

So it's a month later and the PB finally had the plaster company out to "look" at the pool. Apparently the guy showed up at 7:45 am this morning (according to my ring camera) and he apparently dumped a ton of acid in the pool and left. I have no idea how much he added as he didn't ring the doorbell or notify me that he was there.

He left all the equipment running and my vacuum robot in the pool.

Should I immediately neutralize the acid? I am concerned about corroding the pool equipment and the pebble plaster further. Or can it wait until the PB opens on Monday to deal with it?

I tested the water this afternoon- the ph was off the scale on the low side with my Taylor test kit and the alkalinity was <=10.

5.0 FC
0.0 CC
<6.5 pH ( the color was yellow; not sure how to get accurate reading on low ph)
<= 10 TA
280 CH
35 CYA
3450 SALT
83 °F TEMP
-2.38. CSI

Thanks for all you your input and advice so far!

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Any instructions left for you to follow?

 

[stonecutter79]

Any instructions left for you to follow?

No instructions or communication in any manner. I only know that they were here this morning because I got an alert from my driveway camera and saw a guy carrying a 10 ft pvc pipe and a couple gallons jugs of what I assumed was acid. He left after about 15-20 mins

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

They possibly did a spot treat acid wash, I would remove the robot from the water and contact the builder for any instructions for you to follow.

 

[stonecutter79]

That makes sense. I will be following up with them tomorrow. Hopefully what they did yesterday doesn't make it worse or impact the rest of the pool that turned out well. At this point I'm thinking it might just be better to leave it how it is. I guess I was hoping someone from the PB would actually come out to look at it and suggest some options / give me a straight answer.

 

[stonecutter79]

Got ahold of the PB today and they said that the plaster guy spot treated the pool and were told it “looks better” by the plaster guy. I asked the PB what part of the pool they treated and he didn’t know. The only difference I see is that the butter /cream is a brighter blue, but the pebbles in those areas have not been exposed any better. Asked what we need to do now and he said I can brush it if I want. I asked about the ph and alkalinity being low and he said it’s not a problem and won’t hurt anything- they will be out on Thursday to balance the water. Basically the answer to everything is “it’s fine” or “that’s how it’s supposed to be.” PB has not been out to look at the problem at all; just going by my photos.

I’m at a loss of what to do next. At this point I’m inclined to accept defeat and leave it how it is for fear of them making the pebble finish worse.