For sure go with a 400 btu heater and do it right from the begining... The cost difference for me between the two heaters is $227.38.. I don't even offer my customers anything but 400 btu heater..
PB switch from Hayward to Pentair - Help me find equivalents
- Thread starter mschmidt33
- Start date
Yes, more btus will heat faster (duh). There are people who are interested in saving 400 bucks and don't mind waiting a few more minutes. If the ultimate goal is fastest possible heat time and money is no object then why didn't you purchase the Hi-E2? It's 95% efficient! You'll probably be in the spa 15 minutes quicker! Oh, but it does cost $6000.00 - apparently, even for you, cost does come into play at some point.
My goal is to present options for people to consider. Both the 250 and 400 are options (as are smaller sizes) and the OP will decide which holds most value for him, but he should know what his options are. If you'll read my post (forwards), you'll see that I was offering different options at different price points - none of which I am sellling to him, so I have no vested interest other than offering explanations during a very confusing purchase.
Again, good luck to you, mschmidt33!
My goal is to present options for people to consider. Both the 250 and 400 are options (as are smaller sizes) and the OP will decide which holds most value for him, but he should know what his options are. If you'll read my post (forwards), you'll see that I was offering different options at different price points - none of which I am sellling to him, so I have no vested interest other than offering explanations during a very confusing purchase.
Again, good luck to you, mschmidt33!
Guys...there is no spa, it's a sports pool...the OP stated there is no spa in the plans, in his 2nd post in this thread.
No spa guys... "The smallest pump I use is a 1.5 HP pump. It's only $30.00 more then a 1 HP but turns a lot more water and does not use much more energy." This was from an email from our PB.
Thats still too much pump for a 17,000 gallon pool. You push too much water thru the filter too fast and it doesnt filter as well, either. I have a 3/4 hp single speed on a 14,000 gallon kidney and it's just fine.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,954
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
mschmidt33 said:
A 1.5 HP pump has an efficiency of about 2.46 gallons/watt-hr while a 1 HP pump has an efficiency of about 2.62 gallons/watt-hr. About a 6% difference so I would say that is worth going with a smaller pump. Just tell the PB that a 1.5 HP pump is fine as long as it is a two speed uprated pump (WFDS-26).
Also, I understand that you don't have a spa but I had assumed that the heater was for augmenting the heat since you were going with solar. So do you plan to use the heater only when solar is not producing enough heat during colder weather? You may find out that it isn't worth the cost to do so.
mschmidt33 said:
Hi Mike...I hate to say this, but your PB is dead wrong...period (except for the $30 addt'l upfront cost :lol: )
A 1.5hp single speed will consume 50% more power than a 1hp pump (roughly 1500 watts vs 1000 watts), yet only increase flow rate by maybe 15%....Most IG pools use 2" plumbing which can handle about 70 gal/min, while 1.5" plumbing can only handle about 40-45 gall/min max, regardless of what size pump you use.
here is some more info from the dept of energy on pool pump sizing
http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/w ... opic=13290
A 2 speed is in the contract as cost neutral.. Tristar or Northstar or equivalent... my choice. ~$350 upgrade to VS and ~$300 savings for 1 speed. What to do guys?
Since I have never owned a pool I'm not too sure... I believe at this time the only time we will use the gas heater is to keep the pool warm in the spring and fall when solar is not effective enough to keep the pool at the temp we want.
So what do you recommend?
So what do you recommend?
mas985 said:
If we go VS here is the latest "Equivalent" list. If we go 1 speed or 2 speed should we stick with Hayward?
With Variable Speed - $350 upgrade for pump
Automation: Prologic PL-PS-8 to Easy Touch 8, maybe Intellitouch? difference?
Sanitation: T-Cell-15 to IntelliChlor Salt Chlorinator IC40
Pump: Ecostar to IntelliFlo VS-3050. With SVRS?
Filter: S220T Sand to Tagelus TA-100D (30") as we will need the extra flow? Add clearPro? Perhaps even a cartridge CCPS420 or CCPS520. Upgrade cost here?
Heater: H250FDN to MasterTemp 250HD - Still might upgrade to 400BTU
Remote: Aquapod AQL2-POD to Wireless Control Panel 520547
With Variable Speed - $350 upgrade for pump
Automation: Prologic PL-PS-8 to Easy Touch 8, maybe Intellitouch? difference?
Sanitation: T-Cell-15 to IntelliChlor Salt Chlorinator IC40
Pump: Ecostar to IntelliFlo VS-3050. With SVRS?
Filter: S220T Sand to Tagelus TA-100D (30") as we will need the extra flow? Add clearPro? Perhaps even a cartridge CCPS420 or CCPS520. Upgrade cost here?
Heater: H250FDN to MasterTemp 250HD - Still might upgrade to 400BTU
Remote: Aquapod AQL2-POD to Wireless Control Panel 520547
- May 3, 2007
- 16,954
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
mschmidt33 said:
As the temperature cools off, it will be more difficult to keep the pool warm. Even with a solar cover, the pool will lose 3-4 degrees at night which will require about 500k to 700k BTU or 5-7 therms. Twice that without a cover. If you are paying $1/therm, that is $5-$7 per day, $150-$210 per month, to keep the pool heated. Is that something you can live with?
Except for the diehards, most people are not too interested in swimming when the air temperature gets much below 75 degrees, so unless you are one of these people, then I wouldn't bother. To extend the swim season, go with as many panels as you can fit on your roof. This will end up being much less expensive than gas.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,954
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
mschmidt33 said:
You will get that back in savings in a year or two so yes, definitely go with the VS. Hayward also has the ecoStar which is their newest VS but there isn't much history yet.
I' still get the 400. You'll be happier with it. Like keven said, the cost to the builder is negligable. A couple hundred bucks out of the total cost of the pool is not much and the bigger heater is worth it.
I guess it's up to you. We use the pool when its in the 60's outside but then again we're hardy new englanders so we heat the pool in early october. If we didn't use the pool when it was below 75 we wouldn't build one, lol
I guess it's up to you. We use the pool when its in the 60's outside but then again we're hardy new englanders so we heat the pool in early october. If we didn't use the pool when it was below 75 we wouldn't build one, lol
Mike...1st let me say sorry, because although your pool is fairly simple, I do want to say the proposed design is beautiful 
That said...mas985 is one of our resident experts on hydraulics. I still say you could plumb in a 3/4hp full rated pump and a 244t and basically set the timer and forget it. But that's just me...I'm a simple type of guy...if you are willing to tinker and experiment, the the VSP route is the way to go. My vote is either a 3/4-1hp single speed or a VSP...good luck w/ the build
That said...mas985 is one of our resident experts on hydraulics. I still say you could plumb in a 3/4hp full rated pump and a 244t and basically set the timer and forget it. But that's just me...I'm a simple type of guy...if you are willing to tinker and experiment, the the VSP route is the way to go. My vote is either a 3/4-1hp single speed or a VSP...good luck w/ the build
How will I get this back in a year or two? I plan to use the solar a lot... If used most of the day except early spring and late fall, this run time could also account for my 1 turn over per day... thus the VS may only be beneficial in the ealrly spring and late fall?
mas985 said: