Ozonator and bromine/bromide depletion

[msterb]

Hi

I wonder if anyone having experience with use of Salt Water Bromine Generators and use of ozone/ozonator in conjunction. I have a salt water generator to generate bromine from a sodium bromide bank of 1500ppm. The ozone is connected directly after the bromine generator cell in the same jetline that return to the spa bottom. My question is as follow since I can’t any literatur of this combination:

1) Will the ozone convert sodium bromide into bromine?
2) Will the ozone convert bromine into bromamines rather quickly so you get low reading of bromine?
3) Will the ozone also deplete the sodium bromide bank rather quickly, or will the ozone help create new sodium bromide from the bromamines?
4) Is these two system a bad combination?

My problem is that I struggle to get a good bromine reading on my Taylor test, but the water seems to be ok for a month or two but after that I need to change the water and add a new 2 kg/4.41 lbs of sodium bromide (NaBr) to my 1350 liter / 370 gallon spa.

Thanks in advance!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Ozone will oxidize bromide into bromine.

Ozone does not convert bromine into bromamines. Bromamines are formed when bromine reacts with nitrogen containing compounds (sweat, urine, etc).

The sodium bromide bank is unaffected by ozone. It simply converts some of the bromide into bromine and then, when the bromine reacts with something, it is reduced back to bromide.

If you have an electrolytic bromine generator then you should not need ozone. The electrochemical cell is enough to create sanitizing bromine.

Ozone is not a great choice for bromine activation as it can create bromate (BrO3-) compounds which are considered a water contaminant and unhealthy. If I were you I would unplug the ozonator and simply try to get the electrolytic cell to produce enough bromine.

 

[msterb]

Ozone will oxidize bromide into bromine.

Ozone does not convert bromine into bromamines. Bromamines are formed when bromine reacts with nitrogen containing compounds (sweat, urine, etc).

The sodium bromide bank is unaffected by ozone. It simply converts some of the bromide into bromine and then, when the bromine reacts with something, it is reduced back to bromide.

If you have an electrolytic bromine generator then you should not need ozone. The electrochemical cell is enough to create sanitizing bromine.

Ozone is not a great choice for bromine activation as it can create bromate (BrO3-) compounds which are considered a water contaminant and unhealthy. If I were you I would unplug the ozonator and simply try to get the electrolytic cell to produce enough bromine.

What about bromate then, will it deplete the sodium bromine bank?

And will the ozone possible create bromates instead of bromine, which result in zero reading of bromine?

Phosphate is 0, no biofilm or algae, or no metals should be in the spa as I deep cleaned it 4 times last week with AhhSome!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

What about bromate then, will it deplete the sodium bromine bank?

And will the ozone possible create bromates instead of bromine, which result in zero reading of bromine?

Phosphate is 0, no biofilm or algae, or no metals should be in the spa as I deep cleaned it 4 times last week with AhhSome!

You have a huge concentration of sodium bromide. The amount of bromate created won’t affect that. There is no way to test for bromates or bromide, you’re only test is for sanitizing bromine. There is really no way to chemically deplete the bromide bank.

Your zero bromine reading isn’t because the bromide is gone, it’s because whatever you are using to oxidize bromide into bromine isn’t keeping up with the sanitizer demand and so it’s reading zero. You need to use liquid chlorine to activate the bromide and then see if the electrolytic cell can maintain it.

Normally electrolytic cells need around 3000ppm salt concentration for them to work properly. It sounds like your bromide level is a lot lower than that. If you want to create bromine using the electrolytic cell, then I would add regular pool salt to the water up to the concentration specified by the manufacturer and then add an additional 50ppm bromide so that the cell generates bromine.

 

[msterb]

You have a huge concentration of sodium bromide. The amount of bromate created won’t affect that. There is no way to test for bromates or bromide, you’re only test is for sanitizing bromine. There is really no way to chemically deplete the bromide bank.

Your zero bromine reading isn’t because the bromide is gone, it’s because whatever you are using to oxidize bromide into bromine isn’t keeping up with the sanitizer demand and so it’s reading zero. You need to use liquid chlorine to activate the bromide and then see if the electrolytic cell can maintain it.

Normally electrolytic cells need around 3000ppm salt concentration for them to work properly. It sounds like your bromide level is a lot lower than that. If you want to create bromine using the electrolytic cell, then I would add regular pool salt to the water up to the concentration specified by the manufacturer and then add an additional 50ppm bromide so that the cell generates bromine.

Ok thanks for answers. I do have a test for sodium bromide, which states a level of 1500ppm as we speak. The manufacturer suggests 1300-1500ppm. My level is then in the upper interval, and even though it’s not producing bromine. Do you still think the sodium bromide level is low? Does the test actually test sodium bromide or does it only test TDS you think?

The cell seems ok as I have good conductivity in the water. As I wrote above I have performed a very well deep clean to remove anything that can consume bromine, but I still in lack of good bromine readings. And isn’t it so that it is generate bromine from oxidation of sodium bromide? Or is it only generating bromine, and then oxidation makes bromine to sanitizing bromine?

Any idea what my problem is? Can it be that the ozone make my tests underperform?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I would take everything out of the water (ozone and electrolysis cell) and simply use liquid chlorine to activate the bromine. If you can get the bromine level to register and hold, then I would start looking at the other devices.

Bromide can only be tested for in a lab with specialized equipment. Not sure what their test methodology is but it could be just a simple TDS meter. That would not be super accurate nor would it differentiate bromide from any other conductive ionic species in the water.

 

[msterb]

I would take everything out of the water (ozone and electrolysis cell) and simply use liquid chlorine to activate the bromine. If you can get the bromine level to register and hold, then I would start looking at the other devices.

Bromide can only be tested for in a lab with specialized equipment. Not sure what their test methodology is but it could be just a simple TDS meter. That would not be super accurate nor would it differentiate bromide from any other conductive ionic species in the water.

So there is no way that my total bromine reading can show zero with ozone running? If there is bromine it should have shown with and without ozone?

When I shock with MPS or bleach I get a bromine reading, quite high around 20ppm. Which other devices are you refering to?