Not enough Pressure drop for water flow through Intellichem while using Heater bypass, please help

[someguy in KC]

I thought I was doing myself a favor by adding a valve to allow me to bypass my heater. I got tired of my kid's hair turning green from copper.

now, with he bypass turned on, there isn't enough flow through my intellichem to turn it on.

I'd like to have both: the option to bypass my heater, AND, the intellichem to work.

I talked to Pentair and the guy there suggested I could connect the intellichem's outflow to the system just BEFORE the pump. I think this would work but he seemed concerned about this causing problems.

I'm not sure what the problems would be.

should I go with this plan or does anyone have a better idea?

Thank you,

someguy

 

[JohnT]

Welcome to TFP!

If your heater is adding copper to the water, you have other problems than water flow. You have chemistry issues. Either low pH or chemicals add directly into the skimmer damaging the heater before they disperse throughout the water.

Bypassing the heater won’t change anything since the copper is already in the water and isn’t going anywhere.

 

[someguy in KC]

@JohnT

regarding the copper in my pool:

1) I only have about 0.5 ppm of copper but this makes the kids' hair turn green.

2) I was told (by a seemingly knowledge person at my local pool store) that bypassing my heater could decrease my copper levels... so I did it. I also figured it might save me on chemicals and on a bit of electricity (by decreasing the resistance of flow through my system). It was a fun project, by the way.

3) I use CuLator to chelate the copper out.

4) which chemicals are potential to damage the heater if added through the skimmers? I've just been following the instructions on the chemicals as I use them.

5) any suggestions as to what to do with my original problem: the intellichem isn't flowing enough water while I'm using the heater bypass?

I appreciate the help!

Thank you,

Someguy

 

[JohnT]

The odds of a pool store employee being knowledgeable are pretty low. They are almost uniformly worse than clueless. Not only do they know little to nothing about pool care, they “know” many things that are wrong and that will make problems worse.

If your bypass isn’t flowing well enough, it’s likely because a valve has insufficient area or the number of turns is restricting flow. Pictures would be a huge help.

Most chemicals will be rough on a heater if added to the skimmer.

What specific heater do you have? It may not even contain copper. Algaecides and alternative sanitizers are the most common sources of copper in pool water.

Nothing you can do, other than changing the water, will remove the copper. Even the chelator just binds it temporarily and needs to be added regularly.

 

[1poolman1]

@JohnT

regarding the copper in my pool:

1) I only have about 0.5 ppm of copper but this makes the kids' hair turn green.

2) I was told (by a seemingly knowledge person at my local pool store) that bypassing my heater could decrease my copper levels... so I did it. I also figured it might save me on chemicals and on a bit of electricity (by decreasing the resistance of flow through my system). It was a fun project, by the way.

3) I use CuLator to chelate the copper out.

4) which chemicals are potential to damage the heater if added through the skimmers? I've just been following the instructions on the chemicals as I use them.

5) any suggestions as to what to do with my original problem: the intellichem isn't flowing enough water while I'm using the heater bypass?

I appreciate the help!

Thank you,

Someguy

Old trick, use a garden hose and get your daughter's hair soaked with water before she gets into the pool. It helps with the "green hair" problem.
Have you used any copper-based algaecides? That's where most copper in pool water comes from. If it came from your heater you probably need a new one.
Without seeing your plumbing, it is hard to help, but it seems that you also bypassed the intellichem as well.
Adding anything before the pump could cause a suction leak if there are any issues with the tanks running dry, the tubing splitting, a fitting failing.

 

[someguy in KC]

@JohnT : I have a pentair mastertemp 400 heater.

Here is a photo of my setup. I circled the line going to the intellichem in blue and the return in white.

Thank you,

Some guy

 

[JohnT]

I think you’ll either have to throttle down the water flow in the line between the taps or increase your pump flow.

 

[someguy in KC]

Nothing you can do, other than changing the water, will remove the copper. Even the chelator just binds it temporarily and needs to be added regularly.

JohnT:

respectfully, I should tell you that my copper level went from 0.4 to 0.1 after using their "NoMetal" product and a "CuLator" in the skimmer basket. how can we explain this, other than a "Leslie's Pool" conspiracy that my Copper level dropped?

yes, I have read that "free copper" and "ionized copper" are measured differently... perhaps the "NoMetal" and "CuLator" simply changed my copper from one to the other????



also: how about moving the inflow to the intellichem to just before the filter? is there any reason that wouldn't work or would be a problem?

 

[JohnT]

JohnT:

respectfully, I should tell you that my copper level went from 0.4 to 0.1 after using their "NoMetal" product and a "CuLator" in the skimmer basket. how can we explain this, other than a "Leslie's Pool" conspiracy that my Copper level dropped?

yes, I have read that "free copper" and "ionized copper" are measured differently... perhaps the "NoMetal" and "CuLator" simply changed my copper from one to the other????



also: how about moving the inflow to the intellichem to just before the filter? is there any reason that wouldn't work or would be a problem?

The copper is still there, just bound to the sequestrant.

 

[1poolman1]

JohnT:

respectfully, I should tell you that my copper level went from 0.4 to 0.1 after using their "NoMetal" product and a "CuLator" in the skimmer basket. how can we explain this, other than a "Leslie's Pool" conspiracy that my Copper level dropped?

yes, I have read that "free copper" and "ionized copper" are measured differently... perhaps the "NoMetal" and "CuLator" simply changed my copper from one to the other????



also: how about moving the inflow to the intellichem to just before the filter? is there any reason that wouldn't work or would be a problem?

Running un-filtered water through any piece of equipment other than a filter first is asking for problems.

 

[someguy in KC]

So where is the sequestration? Is/does it stick in the filter? If so, my filter pressure went up quite a bit after putting in the “no metal” and I backwashed it out. So maybe it isn’t still in the pool?

 

[someguy in KC]

Regarding the plumbing:

My intellichem does have a filter that the water goes through before it goes into the intellichem water tank. Is that adequate or do you still expect high potential for problem(s)?

 

[1poolman1]

Regarding the plumbing:

My intellichem does have a filter that the water goes through before it goes into the intellichem water tank. Is that adequate or do you still expect high potential for problem(s)?

As the saying goes, "Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances!" If the instructions for that system say that filter is adequate, go with it.

 

[JohnT]

So where is the sequestration? Is/does it stick in the filter? If so, my filter pressure went up quite a bit after putting in the “no metal” and I backwashed it out. So maybe it isn’t still in the pool?

It remains in the pool unless splashed out or backwashed until it breaks down and releases the metal back in the pool.

But Leslie’s testing is so uniformly bad, the most likely scenario is one or both of the tests were incorrect.

 

[someguy in KC]

It remains in the pool unless splashed out or backwashed until it breaks down and releases the metal back in the pool.

But Leslie’s testing is so uniformly bad, the most likely scenario is one or both of the tests were incorrect.

so what is a reliable test for copper in my pool water?

 

[JohnT]

so what is a reliable test for copper in my pool water?

Taylor K-1730. But you wouldn’t have hair staining without copper, so testing is kind of pointless.

 

[Lake Placid]

Based on what I can make out of your plumbing, you can add a metering valve where the red line is in the photo. Move the clear intellichem line that is circled below the red line BEFORE the metering valve indicated by the blue line. When in bypass, adjust the metering valve to slow down flow just enough for the intellichem to get enough flow. Open the metering valve fully when the heater is in use as it provides enough back pressure apparently for the intellichem to work. Never fully close the metering valve when the pump is running or bad things will happen. Your bypass plumbing seems to be comprised of DWV fittings. Not recommended.