New SWG Install - Not Getting Claimed Chlorine Generation

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CyclingCraig

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Jul 9, 2010
46
Central, New Jersey
Hi All,

I'm sorry but this is long, but I want to give all the info I have so far on my issue.

I recently installed the Crystal Pure Salt System from Inyo Pools. I have the 60,000 Gallon system (My Pool is 28,500) with a claimed output generation of 3.18 lbs/day

Originally when I first installed the system, I ran some tests, setting the unit to run at 100% overnight with my solar cover on for 10 hours.

I took Chlorine readings (FAS-DPD) when I started the system and then again in the morning. My chlorine went from .5 to 1.7... so a little over a 1 ppm increase over 10 hours.

If I do the math and use "PoolMath"
3.18lbs/day = 50.88 oz/day..
Divide 50.88 by 24 hours in a day you get 2.12 oz per day.
I ran it for 10 hours at 100%, so that should have produced 21.2 oz of chlorine gas right??
If I put that number into PoolMath my Chlorine should have went up over 5 ppm.

Current pool stats:
pH: 7.3
TA: 90
CH: 180
Salt: 3400
Temp: 78
CYA: 30 - 40.

I know my CYA is very low for a SWG, i'm working on getting that to the 70 - 80 range. But since my test was overnight, with a solar blanket on I figured there would me no chlorine loss due to sun?

I contacted Inyo support and after a few go around with diagnostics and more tests, they sent me a new cell.

I installed the cell yesterday and ran my overnight test again, and my Chlorine went from 5.5 to 7.5. an increase of only 2ppm.

I KNOW my pool will hold Chlorine, because I am using bleach to shock and maintain chlorine. I shocked my pool over 2 weeks ago with bleach (12.5%) to bring my FC up to 15, have not added any additional bleach and yesterday my chlorine was only down to 5.5. Granted my blanket has been on ALL the time except for the one time my kids went swimming.

Cell Volts are normally around 21 - 24
Cell Amps around 4.1 - 4.4

Is my math wrong on how I am calculating Chlorine output? Is the CYA not just there for chlorine loss due to sun.. does it have to do with absorbing the chlorine gas properly??

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

Thanks
-Craig
 
Low salinity or low water temperature will reduce the production some.

What is the salinity and water temperature?

What voltage is connected to the box input power supply?
 
Avg Salt: 3400
Pool Temp: 78F
Cell Voltage: 21.1
Cell Current: 4.2
Desired Output: 72P
Instant Salt: 3300
Product Name: At - 5
Software Version: r646
Cell Type: t-15

I had the percent turn down while I was in there for some testing, that is why it's at 72P, during the other tests it was set at 100P
 
I don't know why it's producing at about 0.9 lbs per day. (My estimate from the amperage).

I would expect the amperage to be about 6.0 to 7.8 for a T-15 cell producing about 1.45 lbs per day.

The voltage seems to be a little bit low, I would expect about 25 to 28 volts.

I don't know how it could produce 3.18 lbs per day. As best as I can estimate, it should produce about 1.45 lb per day.

To get to 3 lbs per day, I estimate that it would take about 15 amps.

Maybe I'm missing something.
 

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Maybe I'm missing something.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that is why i'm so perplexed !!

Is it possible an issue with my control board, not sending the right info or amps to the cell?

Maybe the board doesn't think I have the correct setting for the cell. The diagnostic display says t-15, but maybe something is going wrong there?

I got the specs for 3.18 from their web site?

SWGSpec.jpg
 
The cell normally has 13 plates, which create 2 sets of 6 cells. Assuming 7.8 amps measured, that's 46.8 amps for all cells. 3.9 amps per cell x 12 cells.

Assuming 24 volts dc supply. It's similar to having 2 sets of (6) 4 volt batteries in series with each set in parallel and the box is a battery charger.

24 volts x 7.8 amps is 187.2 watts. (12) 4 volt batteries accepting 3.9 amps is 187.2 watts.

46.8 x 60 x 60 x 24 x 6.242 x 1018 = 2.524 x 1025 electrons per day.

6.022 x 1023 electrons = 1 mole chlorine atoms.

41.91 mole chlorine atoms x 35.45 grams per mole = 1,486 grams (3.27 lbs) chlorine in 24 hours.

That's what's theoretically possible at 100% efficiency.

Real world numbers for the cells typically are about 6 to 7.8 amps for a T-15 cell producing about 1.45 lbs per day.

Note: I think that the above is correct, but I'm not 100% sure.

Other Notes:

If you have (12) 4 volt batteries and it takes 3.9 amps to charge each battery, you can charge the batteries in several ways. One way is to charge in parallel. For this, your charger puts out 4 volts and the amperage is 3.9 x the number of batteries. The other way is to put the batteries in series and the amperage is 3.9 and the voltage is 4 volts x the number of batteries in series.

A 13 blade cell is equivalent to 2 sets of 6 batteries in series. The 6 batteries in series take 24 volts and 3.9 amps to charge. With two sets of 6 in parallel, the voltage is 24 and the amperage is 7.8.

The total electron flow is based on 3.9 amps x 12 batteries. If you did 12 batteries in series, you would use a 48 volt charger at 3.9 amps. If you did 12 batteries in parallel, you would use a 4 volt charger at 46.8 amps. Either way, each battery gets 4 volts and 3.9 amps (15.6 watts) and the total electron flow rate is the same and the power usage is the same (187.2 watts).

The AquaRite cell has one wire going to the center plate and the other wire going to both outside plates creating two sets of 7 plates with 6 cells in series and the two sets are connected in parallel.

If the CrystalPure cell has one wire going to an outside plate and the other wire going to the other outside plate, which would put 12 cells in series. That could account for a lower amperage at the same production rate but I would expect the voltage to be higher (closer to 48 volts).

1 ampere = 6.242 × 1018 electrons per second

It takes 1 electron to convert one chloride ion into an chlorine atom.

It takes 6.022 x 1023 chlorine atoms to create a mole of chlorine or 1/2 mole of Chlorine gas (Cl2)
 
WOW... Thanks so much James !!

So this makes me think, my board is not supplying the necessary amps to the cell, since I just installed a brand new warranty cell.

I have heard people talking about replacing "Thermoresistors"?? (I think that is what I remember them being called).. it is possible I'm only running on 1/2 power somehow ?
 
As long as the voltage is correct, the amps depend on the cell, salinity and water temperature.

Maybe run an overnight chlorine loss test to rule out organics eating the chlorine and then run at 100% overnight to see how much the fc increases to determine production.

Based on the total power being used, it seems like it's probably only making about 0.8 to 0.9 lbs per day unless I'm missing some important detail.

I recommend that you get a K-1766 salt test kit to verify the actual salt level.

Theoretically, you could get to 3 lbs per day at 7.8 amps.

Realistically, I think that 7.8 amps would probably not exceed 1.8 lbs per day.

One reference says that the system can work up to 7,0000 ppm salinity. Maybe at close to 7,000 ppm it could get to 3 lbs per day.

I think that the amps would probably get close to 12 amps to get to 3 lbs per day.

I suspect that the high salt goes by amps and probably trips at 10 amps.

Check input voltage to make sure that it's correct. Your cell voltage seems a little bit low, which might indicate an issue with the input voltage being low.
 
JamesW.. Thanks again for all the great input on this, can't thank you enought.

JamesW said:
I recommend that you get a K-1766 salt test kit to verify the actual salt level.
Click to expand...
I have that kit.

The result of those tests are around 3400, dropped some now because or A LOT of rain here.


JamesW said:
One reference says that the system can work up to 7,0000 ppm salinity. Maybe at close to 7,000 ppm it could get to 3 lbs per day.
Click to expand...
I'm going to try and bring my salt up to 3600, see what that does to help.

Also still trying to get my CYA up.

Would Metals in my water affect any of this.. I'm going to get that tested at the pool store tonight.


JamesW said:
Check input voltage to make sure that it's correct. Your cell voltage seems a little bit low, which might indicate an issue with the input voltage being low.
Click to expand...
I'll throw a voltmeter across my input terminal to the box tonight and see what I get.

Thanks again
-Craig
 
Metals won't have an effect on production. Mostly, salinity, water temperature and plate surface area determine production.

There are things that can use up chlorine, such as organics and sunlight.

Metal stain removers can use up chlorine.

Do you ever get CCs?
 
Thanks everyone for the input on this. I have also reached out to our engineer of this salt system to see if can shed any more light on the output production of the Crystal Pure. As soon as I hear back I will post to this thread.
 
Hi CyclingCraig, I spoke with the engineer and he asked if you could put a voltmeter on the incoming power to the power supply to make sure you have good voltage going to the power supply. Can you confirm your voltage with a volt meter and post the results back to this thread? Thanks so much!
 

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