New pool in Los Angeles

[southbay]

We have plans for and are looking to select a contractor for a pool in the Los Angeles south bay area. Details for the current option we're considering:

Overall size: 13' x 37'
Depth: Leaning towards 3.5' to 5.5' for a play/swim pool
Spa: 7x7 with 6 therapy jets
Plumbing:
- recessed commercial type skimmer
- 4 pool returns with directional fittings
- dedicated automatic cleaner line
- 2.5" suction and return for spa jets
Interior finish: Quartzscapes, grey
Baja Bench with umbrella holder
Pool Equipment:
- Hayward 2 HP variable speed filter pump
- Hayward 48 sq ft DE filter
- Hayward 400,000 BTU gas heater
- Hayward Colorlogic LED lights w/ light show (4 pool, 1 spa)
- Hayward Omnilogic remote control system with subpanel
- HydroRite UVO3 UV and Ozone system
Pool Cover:
- Automatic pool cover with encapsulated track system
- Vanishing cover vault
- 3' drainage stub out from vault
Decking: modern flat finish concrete

Would love any feedback! Notes on how we got here and what we're thinking about:

• Want a pool cover for safety and heat retention. It's 10 degrees cooler in our area than LA, so trying to extend swimmable months. Solar heating not an option. Would consider any other equipment that lowers heating costs.
• Ozone/UV system due to automatic pool cover and to decrease chlorine level to < 0.5 (though they seem pretty unpopular on this site)
• Every new pool in our area is Pentair, but this PB likes Hayward. We want whatever is best quality and quietest.
• Our pool equipment will be in a concrete-walled area adjacent to an open air cabana. I'm a bit worried I'll be unhappy with this setup later due to noise.
• Originally wanted a FastLane swim jet system but don't think it works with the cover; PB recommended Badu; ended up passing on both after research
• Looked into but ended up passing on Paramount in floor cleaning and Hayward chemical automation after more research.
• Wood deck in plan below was removed due to fire restrictions.
• Still considering porcelain pavers or Chinese sandstone instead of concrete.

Appreciate any wisdom or suggestions!

 

[ajw22]

- HydroRite UVO3 UV and Ozone system

• Ozone/UV system due to automatic pool cover and to decrease chlorine level to < 0.5 (though they seem pretty unpopular on this site)

You asked...

UV Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Ozone Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

We do not use or endorse the use of ozone systems. Ozone systems have no value in a residential, outdoor pool.

Ozone manufacturers that push Ozone systems say you need to maintain a minimal amount of chlorine in the water. Here at TFP we group them together as an "alternative" system that is potentially unsafe to the swimmers in the water.

Additionally, ozone systems are impossible to test to see if they are working or not.

Ozone provides no residual effectiveness. It only cleans what comes in direct contact with it. We would much rather maintain a higher FC level and know that pool water is safe since it's the water itself that carries the sanitizing effects along with it.

Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools--The Truth!

Pool owners frequently seek out "Chemical Free" alternatives to pool water sanitization. Many claims in favor of these systems and methods have been made (usually by the manufacturers of such systems) often without adequate scientific proof of their efficacy. Let's take a look at them and see...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[KDpoolguy]

I’m only commenting on what I feel I can be of help advising on. Consider the pavers instead of poured concrete bands (only around cantilevered coping) Makes future repairs and upgrades a breeze.
Plumbing:
- dedicated automatic cleaner line
Consider ditching, I like having mine, but with current robot tech it‘s barely useful and you can always use the skimmer for the manual cleaner suction. Automatic suction cleaners just aren't worth it if it’s a new pool build,

Pool Equipment:
Many will only advise their own experience and preference. Having used many Hayward and Pentair models, I like both, but Pentair is consistently ...how we say...advisable? Look below for my opinion on the best.
- Hayward 2 HP variable speed filter pump (
Clarify model. The Pentair Intelliflo is the preeminent pump, but certain Hayward models are problematic.
- Hayward 48 sq ft DE filter
Most of us strongly advise a Pentair Clean&Clear Cartridge Filter. DE is OG.
- Hayward 400,000 BTU gas heater
Want a heater to last a generation? Get a Raypak. Raypak beats Hayward’s Rock and Pentair‘s Scissors Any day.
- Hayward Colorlogic LED lights w/ light show (4 pool, 1 spa)
Totally your decision, but match lights to your automation. I honestly feel a white light beats color-changing lights any day. When these fail, it’ll be expensive. Consider Less lights, even consider the non-LED models Such as Pentair Amerlite. LED tech in pools still isn’t there yet, it’s barely stable in residential and commercial settings. The promise of 30 year LED life is a wives tale. LA is chocked full of failed 5 yr old LED and Fiber Optic lights, that would cost thousands to replace only to fail again, while you can retrofit Amerlites for decades. We’re all sitting here waiting for Pentair and Hayward to show us a LED system that lasts. I see Amerlites still holding after 20+ years.
- Hayward Omnilogic remote control system with subpanel
I’ve liked Omnilogic, but Pentairs other equipment is superior, and thus you should match your pump model to your automation. I’d advise the Intellicenter Or Easytouch models.
- HydroRite UVO3 UV and Ozone system
Just for piling on, no...don’t go down this rabbit hole.
Pool Cover:
- Automatic pool cover with encapsulated track system
I understand the need for safety, but you may still require a fence check local code. From personal experience, They’re a maintenance nightmare. Never used it in apartment pools I managed, some in high-end areas of LA. The heat* retention from the ‘top’ is 1/4 of the equation.
*Keeping a pool heated for a long period is an expensive proposition.

 

[southbay]

Ozone manufacturers that push Ozone systems say you need to maintain a minimal amount of chlorine in the water. Here at TFP we group them together as an "alternative" system that is potentially unsafe to the swimmers in the water.

Additionally, ozone systems are impossible to test to see if they are working or not.

Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools--The Truth!

Pool owners frequently seek out "Chemical Free" alternatives to pool water sanitization. Many claims in favor of these systems and methods have been made (usually by the manufacturers of such systems) often without adequate scientific proof of their efficacy. Let's take a look at them and see...

www.troublefreepool.com

Thank you for the links, I will research.

 

[southbay]

Thank you for your feedback.

I’m only commenting on what I feel I can be of help advising on. Consider the pavers instead of poured concrete bands (only around cantilevered coping) Makes future repairs and upgrades a breeze.

Good idea. Will ask about pavers for the coping. We're doing a modern style, not sure if it's cantilevered or if there's another possibility.

Plumbing:
- dedicated automatic cleaner line
Consider ditching, I like having mine, but with current robot tech it‘s barely useful and you can always use the skimmer for the manual cleaner suction. Automatic suction cleaners just aren't worth it if it’s a new pool build,

OK, will ask PB about this. I know nothing about cleaner line vs skimmer vs robots or what a manual cleaner is, will search out some threads. Lots to learn.

Clarify model. The Pentair Intelliflo is the preeminent pump, but certain Hayward models are problematic.

The quote is for W3SP3206VSP, which looks like a Tristar VS 2.7 HP.

- Hayward 48 sq ft DE filter
Most of us strongly advise a Pentair Clean&Clear Cartridge Filter. DE is OG.
- Hayward 400,000 BTU gas heater
Want a heater to last a generation? Get a Raypak. Raypak beats Hayward’s Rock and Pentair‘s Scissors Any day.

Thanks for the advice. Hadn't heard of Raypak until you mentioned, but see good things online.

- Hayward Colorlogic LED lights w/ light show (4 pool, 1 spa)
Totally your decision, but match lights to your automation. I honestly feel a white light beats color-changing lights any day. When these fail, it’ll be expensive. Consider Less lights, even consider the non-LED models Such as Pentair Amerlite. LED tech in pools still isn’t there yet, it’s barely stable in residential and commercial settings. The promise of 30 year LED life is a wives tale. LA is chocked full of failed 5 yr old LED and Fiber Optic lights, that would cost thousands to replace only to fail again, while you can retrofit Amerlites for decades. We’re all sitting here waiting for Pentair and Hayward to show us a LED system that lasts. I see Amerlites still holding after 20+ years.

This makes sense. It's too bad, color changing is so fun!

Incidentally there's also some research that LED lights can cause retina damage. (Learned after I replaced all the lights in my house with LED, of course). Not sure if that also applies underwater.

- Hayward Omnilogic remote control system with subpanel
I’ve liked Omnilogic, but Pentairs other equipment is superior, and thus you should match your pump model to your automation. I’d advise the Intellicenter Or Easytouch models.

Question... My PB uses Hayward, but also said he's open to putting in Pentair or whatever I want. Is this equipment fairly interchangeable, or should I look for a pool builder who primarily does Pentair system installations to have confidence in the install?

- HydroRite UVO3 UV and Ozone system
Just for piling on, no...don’t go down this rabbit hole.

Pool Cover:
- Automatic pool cover with encapsulated track system
I understand the need for safety, but you may still require a fence check local code. From personal experience, They’re a maintenance nightmare. Never used it in apartment pools I managed, some in high-end areas of LA. The heat* retention from the ‘top’ is 1/4 of the equation.
*Keeping a pool heated for a long period is an expensive proposition.

OK. Our PB says salt systems wreak havoc on automatic covers, which is why he recommended Ozone UV. Maybe partially why they're a maintenance nightmare? I guess the unknown is how much money a cover will save in heating costs vs. how often I need to replace the covers.

I love the idea of less chemicals and am very sad Ozone is not a safe option. But thanks to you and ajw22 for your feedback on this.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Congrats on the pool, though. Keep us abreast on the progress! I hope we don’t burst any bubbles. Its Exciting stuff to build one, and ultimately the equipment will be a small piece aside from the overall ‘story’ you’re telling with the construction.

• Pool cleaner tech: The best pool cleaners of today are all robots. Just researched and bought a Dolphin robot in my new pool, after decades of suction and pressure side cleaners and a IFCS (In floor), all developed in the 70s-80s. A dedicated ‘wall-mount’ suction line is unnecessary (and can be seen as an unnecessary point of danger). If the cost is high on your bid, ditch it. A manual cleaner is just a dummy vacuum head one puts on a pole And cleans the pool by hand. I still occasionally did this...before the robot. The robot is the way of the future and cleans any pool spotless on 2 hours. Have the electricIan drop a 110v mid-way to the pool’s length, per code 10’ away from edge.
• Pump+Automation: The Hayward Tristar VS900 is a solid pump. The pump body has been around for decades, just like Pentair‘s, it’s just the VS motor that’s the new tech. But, the Pentair Intelliflo line of VS pumps, paired to the Intellicenter or Easytouch is less of a headache. Pool automation is not yet at the ‘Apple’ level of hardware/software, but Hayward has seemed to be more buggy of a system. If its an option, and youve chosen a PB, they should be able to order whatever you want. Some just have preferences. The installs are not difficult for a pro. Most don’t know the intricacies of the software of any automation, but if you end up with the Omnilogic/Tristar, it’s still a good system. More of what I see on here is the continued good capability and expandability of the Pentair automation.