New natural gas heater

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koenbro

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Dec 11, 2016
8
Scottsdale, AZ
Hello, I have an obsolete Raypak R265 heater for my pool (10k gal) and spa; house was built in 1994 and the heater is original (Raypak website states they stopped making my particular model in 1998). Plus it is on propane, whereas we have just added natural gas.

So I would like to get a new heater for NG. Ideally remote on-off capable; have a Lutron system in my house and mesh Wifi that I can extend to cover the pool equipment area, so that would be one option, but am open to alternatives.

My pool guy recommended a Jandi JXI, but I would like to do my homework before choosing. Any quality brand recommendations? Thank you all.
 
I think any heater you get in order to control it remotely you will also need a basic pool automation system. The good news is that most heaters work off a standard "fireman's switch" meaning almost any automation will control almost any heater.

The Jandy JXI is a good heater but will run you $4k+ with installation (not including gas line). Even though you have a small(ish) pool, I would still recommend a 400kBTU heater. Do you have a gas line run to where the heater will be? Running a gas line can cost a LOT. I had quotes up to $4500 to run 80 feet of gas line and hook it up to the heater. I ended up paying $1500.
 
koenbro said:
When we instaleld NG I had a gas line pulled to the heater. There is now a bib 12" from the heater.

Can you recommend a quality alternative to the Jandy ?

What is an example of a pool automation system? Thx.
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Gas heaters use a LOT of gas. I had to have a new meter as well as a special high pressure line installed just to feed the heater. I would be surprised if your line can handle a pool heater unless the installer specifically is familiar with pool heater requirements.

Your existing Raypak is a highly regarded brand.

I am only familiar with Aqualink pool automation. That is Jandy's brand.

This website is a good place to start. They may offer a discount for forum members so ask. Swimming Pool Supplies - Pool Parts - INYOPools.com
 
Maybe check out the AVIA.

It's new, so not much info yet.

bjohannes said:
Happy to report that my AVIA NG heater was successfully installed last Friday. The install was a bit tricky given the location of the water inlet/outlet on the heater (they're closer to the ground than most units). They ended up moving my pump over a few inches to get the necessary clearance.

The heater fired up without issue on the first attempt and has been working flawlessly since. The WiFi connection and app work well; really handy for getting the pool heated up in advance of getting home (I don't normally keep the pool at any particular temp when not in use). The unit itself feels well made and appears to be well sealed to keep moisture out (unlike the design of my old Hayward FDN).
Click to expand...

bjohannes said:
The only thing I wasn't expecting is the noise: a bit of a low and variable whistling sound as air is forced through the unit. A little spooky but nothing horrible.
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Which Raypak to choose - New Avia vs. Oldschool digital

The time has come to replace my failing 250k BTU Hayward natural gas heater. I was originally set on getting the newly released Raypak Avia, but my pool guy is recommending a more traditional Rheem digital unit (P-M266) as it'll last longer. He also stated that his unit is the dealer model that...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Last edited:
It's basically Raypak's version of the Pentair Mastertemp.

AVIA WITH NITEK POOL AND SPA HEATER, 264 AND 404

Managing your pool heater has never been easier or smarter.

AVIA is built with an innovative Wi-Fi enabled control system that allows you to manage your pool heater and one accessory through the Raymote app.

No need for a separate control panel to manage your pool heater.





detail-avia-with-nitek.png


 
koenbro said:
When we instaleld NG I had a gas line pulled to the heater. There is now a bib 12" from the heater.

Can you recommend a quality alternative to the Jandy ?

What is an example of a pool automation system? Thx.
Click to expand...
I have had a Hayward 200 FDN (200,000 BTU) for 13 years heating an 18x33 54" above ground pool and I am completely satisfied with the heating capability of it. Over the years I have had to do some minor maintainance on it due to spider webs clogging the gas jets and last year I had to replace the pressure switch ( a cheap fix that I did myself ) Overall, I recommend it.
 
I was going to also boost the Raypak AVIA. It has built in WiFi controls so that you don’t need an automation system. It’s a forced draft heater so they tend to be more expensive to fix because that have more expensive moving parts. But if Raypak applied it’s usually good engineering to it, then aside from it being a new entry into the gas heater market, it should be good for you.

Just make sure you have enough gas pressure where your new NG run is and make sure the installer CERTIFIES that the gas flow (both static and dynamic) is adequate. The installer should be a qualified gas plumber that can provide you with exact pressure values for when they install and test run it. The test run should be for at least one hour, or longer, to ensure that the system has no leaks and the pressure is stable. Don’t just hire someone to install it and walk away, you need to TEST it in the field under operating conditions.
 
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Wow, lots of great information here, thank you guys! I watched the videos on the Avia and like it quite a bit.

My current system, the Raypak 265 is, if I read its sticker correctly, 264,000 BTU. So then a drop in replacement would be the Avia 264 with Copper heat exchanger, am I right?

As for the install, if I order it from a dealer, I'd expect them to install, certify and warranty it, isn't that how it works?
 
koenbro said:
As for the install, if I order it from a dealer, I'd expect them to install, certify and warranty it, isn't that how it works?
Click to expand...

A dealer may or may not have certified people to do the installation. They may just sub it out to someone they use to do plumbing work and then you’ll get the basic drop in and go. The dealer will certainly hold the warranty but that’s mostly meaningless after the fact.

What we’ve seen happen time and again is that a person buys a heater and some “installer” shows up with it on their back of their pickup and the drop the unit in place. They then tell the the homeowner - “it’s all hooked up, we tested it, fired it up and it’s all good … please sign here on the line.” The heater works for a bit or the homeowner just isn’t watching it closely and then problems kick it. Maybe the gas pressure wasn’t tested and the heater will fire but not stay lit. Maybe the electrical install was wonky. Then you’re stuck after the fact trying the get the dealer to fix it while he’s trying to get Raypak to deal with it. Then you go through a half dozen “local repair” guys before you come back on TFP begging for help. At that point, @JamesW asks you a million questions with pictures and finally comes to the conclusion that the original installer is a dunce and they forgot to take the plastic plug out of the inlet on the manifold.

Save yourself the grief and demand that the installer be certified and be there looking over their shoulders while they do work. Ask for visual and written proof that the heater is operating within spec before you sign off any paperwork.
 
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I would go with the NiTek heat exchanger. It’s basically nickel clad copper. The nice part is the copper gives you the high thermal transfer efficiency while the nickel clad provides robust chemical resistant to flue gases. Flue gas can be super corrosive and nickel is very good against heat damage and corrosion resistance.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
I would go with the NiTek heat exchanger. It’s basically nickel clad copper. The nice part is the copper gives you the high thermal transfer efficiency while the nickel clad provides robust chemical resistant to flue gases. Flue gas can be super corrosive and nickel is very good against heat damage and corrosion resistance.
Click to expand...
I also think it's more lasting for SWCG pools with higher salt content.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
A dealer may or may not have certified people to do the installation. They may just sub it out to someone they use to do plumbing work and then you’ll get the basic drop in and go. The dealer will certainly hold the warranty but that’s mostly meaningless after the fact.

What we’ve seen happen time and again is that a person buys a heater and some “installer” shows up with it on their back of their pickup and the drop the unit in place. They then tell the the homeowner - “it’s all hooked up, we tested it, fired it up and it’s all good … please sign here on the line.” The heater works for a bit or the homeowner just isn’t watching it closely and then problems kick it. Maybe the gas pressure wasn’t tested and the heater will fire but not stay lit. Maybe the electrical install was wonky. Then you’re stuck after the fact trying the get the dealer to fix it while he’s trying to get Raypak to deal with it. Then you go through a half dozen “local repair” guys before you come back on TFP begging for help. At that point, @JamesW asks you a million questions with pictures and finally comes to the conclusion that the original installer is a dunce and they forgot to take the plastic plug out of the inlet on the manifold.

Save yourself the grief and demand that the installer be certified and be there looking over their shoulders while they do work. Ask for visual and written proof that the heater is operating within spec before you sign off any paperwork.
Click to expand...

That is VERY relatable from other walks of life. Thank you for adding a dose of reality.

JoyfulNoise said:
I would go with the NiTek heat exchanger.
Click to expand...

Ok will upgrade to the NiTek Haven't placed the order yet. I contacted 4 dealers in the Phoenix area yesterday (got them from te Raypak website). One said she never heard of Avia still waiting on the other three.

Does anyone know of a dealer in the Phoenix metro who's willing to sell and install (the right way) an Avia?

I understand there is a way to link the heater to a Raypak pump for communication and triggering?
 
PoolGate said:
Gas heaters use a LOT of gas. I had to have a new meter as well as a special high pressure line installed just to feed the heater. I would be surprised if your line can handle a pool heater unless the installer specifically is familiar with pool heater requirements.

Your existing Raypak is a highly regarded brand.

I am only familiar with Aqualink pool automation. That is Jandy's brand.

This website is a good place to start. They may offer a discount for forum members so ask. Swimming Pool Supplies - Pool Parts - INYOPools.com
Click to expand...
Gas operates on such low pressure to begin with. I have 2 furnaces, a gas dryer and a professional range. All routinely are on in the winter at the same time. The fact that a pool heater needs a special HP line if true perhaps has more to do with the pipe run length? Why wouldn't any volume issue simply be solved by a using a 1" gas line?
 

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