New Equipment installation questions

[ndakotaninja]

I just updated my pool hardware and plumbing this week and I have some questions that hopefully someone can answer. The pool company that replaced the stuff had a few suggestions but I figured I'd get the opinions here to make sure they pan out with what he said (or not).

1. I got a Pentair EasyTouch Control board that I can manage some of the things through an app (technically 2 apps). The app doesn't seem to have much 'help' features to explain what different fields are for. The instruction booklet isn't much use either. Anyone familiar with the 'pentair SLConfig' and 'pentair screenlogic' apps that could help me set up some basic things (we can PM if anyone knows their way around the apps).
2. I have a Pentair Superflo VS pump. He suggested I run it 24/7 at 2100 RPM. He mentioned the setting would insure the water was filtered twice in a 24 hour period. That doesn't really matter from what I've read in other threads. I know the idea with a VS pump is slow and steady to get the better energy savings, but are there guidelines for picking an rpm value for normal function? Any guidelines for running it with a vacuum booster pump? Or just "the lowest setting that doesn't make the SWG/booster pump unhappy"?
3. If I run the pump 24/7, are there any "gotchas" related to my SWG (or other chemicals) that I should know about. Obviously I'd have it on a much lower % and can fine tune the SWG over time, but anything else I should watch for?
4. The Pentair app lets you configure an Intelliflo pump but not the Superflo. I see I have 3 buttons I can program directly on the pump for different speeds, so I was thinking 1 for normal pool, one for pool with the booster pump running with it, and one for the spa. Does that sounds reasonable?
5. Does the superflo always default to setting 1 when it comes on? Is there a way to change that? Or set times of day to change to a different program (so that I can have my booster pump run from 11-noon and make sure the pump is running high enough rpms to work with the booster pump, for instance)?
6. The heater hasn't been plumbed for gas yet, so I haven't had a chance to work with it yet. Do i need to have higher RPMs when running the heater or does that not matter at all?

Thanks in advance. I don't usually have this many questions but with all the new equipment at once, as well as a confusing app that supposedly controls them all, I'm in over my head. The pool company finished their work, but if anything doesn't work like it's supposed to, I'm trying to determine that now so I can have them back out before I pay them the rest.

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

If you want to understand ScreenLogic, you should install it on your PC.. It is much easier to understand and to program using the PC.. The phone works great once you have a clue as to what you are doing, and how the system works..

Sorry, the EasyTouch cannot control the SuperFlo VS.. Your pool guy did you no favors selling you that pump. The EasyTouch is made to control the IntelliFlo style pumps.

If you want to enjoy your automation, you should tell your pool company that they screwed up and you want a real pump...

The whole point of automation is to make the pump change speeds based upon the mode the pool is in.. When you are in the pool mode it should automatically run at one speed, when in the spa mode at another speed, and when you want to run the cleaner another speed, etc...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ndakotaninja]

You can ignore #5. I went through the boxes of 'garbage' and found the instruction manual for the pump, so I see I can schedule each button and times for it to run to make my schedule. Presumably I can time this with my booster pump, just not sure if I can do anything with it through the App yet.

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

Sorry, but manually running the pump, when you have an automation system, just makes no sense at all..

I can help you with ScreenLogic.. What is it you need to know??

What model of EasyTouch do you have?? If you don't know, show us a pic of the panel with the little LCD display.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ndakotaninja]

Yeah, it's partially my fault that the automated system isn't automated. We planned on just a few things and then he made some suggestions that sounded nice so we said yes, and I just assumed they'd work together since they're all Pentair. I just didn't do my research ahead of time and it is way better than what we had before, so even still... I'll just live with it until we want to update the pump again, or let the next owner do it. The panel is a PL4/PSL4 control system.

So with regards to the panel/app: Basically the pump is connected to the main circuit and the booster pump is Aux 1. I think I've figured out my way through the 'config' app for what I need. I don't really know what the valve assignments in the app are for (in other equipment page) or if I should use them for any reason (I don't have valve actuators). I assume the screnlogic app is what I (or my wife) would use to turn the vacuum or heater on outside of the scheduled times?

There are 3 modes: Auto, Service, and Timeout. I don't really get the difference between auto and service. I also noticed when I changed into auto mode that the pump AND booster pump kicked on immediately. I don't have a schedule for Aux 1, so I'm not sure why it turned on too. Does auto turn everything on, or should it go by the schedule? Does Service mode just prevent you from using the app to control it?

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

Auto... is where the system should be set most of the time.. This means that the system will automatically do what you have scheduled.

Service... Is designed when you do NOT want the system to do anything automatically.. As an example, this mode is used when you want to clean your filter or open the pump lid.. You don't want something coming on automatically when you are doing that. It is basically used by someone "Servicing" the pool.

Time Out... is the same as Service, except it will time out after a period of time and go back to auto.. I know of no one that used Time-Out..

Since you have the SuperFlo, it is not going to act like the normal pump does.. Do you know if the power to the SuperFlo is wired into the Pump/Filter relay?? In theory the SuperFlo should get constant AC power... But if they did that, the EasyTouch would not be able to turn it on or off???

For sure the Aux 1 relay should not come on unless you press Aux 1 or you have Aux one scheduled.. So that is a puzzle.

Show me the following set up pages from your ScreenLogic system..

View media item 1964

Schedules1.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• May 27, 2019

ScreenLogic Heaters set up

If all you have is two actuators, to change your pool from the pool mode to the spa mode, you do not need to worry about valve assignment..

ScreenLogic can control the heater.. You set the temp you want on the app and the heater will heat until it gets to that temp..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ndakotaninja]

Thanks, I played around with things some more to test out settings. I will install ScreenLogic on my computer so I can show you those pages you want. but that will probably be tomorrow. I also sent my pool guy an email asking about switching to the Intelliflo pump instead...we'll see what he says.

I'm not entirely sure how it's connected for power, but I believe however it's done, it has constant ac power because when i turn off the pump from the panel, the pump still has the green lights on. It does say Err 000f, but I'm not sure if that means it's not getting ANY power. If you want me to open the bottom panel and check something else, let me know. I think the SWG is ran to the same circuit as the pump and it doesn't have any power when the pump shuts off, so it's possible it isn't wired for constant power...

Also, when I went out to check the power, the booster pump was back on again for some reason. I shut it off, then shut off the pump to check the power. When I turned the pump back on, the booster pump turned on a minute later automatically. The only schedule I currently have is for the pool to turn on at 8:01am and off at 8am.

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

I suspect that the booster comes on because of some set up or wiring issue. At this point I have no way to tell for sure.

The SWCG should have no lights unless the pump is running.. My guess is that they are only turning on/off half of the 240 going to the pump.. That is why the lights are on and it has an error code for low volts..

Pics of the wiring between the relays would help a lot..

I know it is easy for me to spend your money, but if you can work out a deal with the pool guy, you will be much happier with the IntelliFlo, even if it cost more.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ndakotaninja]

And:

 

[ndakotaninja]

So I went to the gym this morning from 8am to 10am. When I got home, I just checked the app to make sure the booster pump hadn't started up again. Somehow the booster pump was on but the pool pump was off. I checked the 'history' section which showed that the pump shut off at ~8:25 this morning. I had the booster pump show in the 'pool section' for the screenlogic display, but i changed it back to none to see if that will stop it from turning on/off randomly. As you can see, there is only 1 schedule for the pool right now.

Unfortunately when i did the 'configure' part this morning, I saw the date was a month off so i fixed it. Apparently that wiped out my history, so i can't look more into what happened this morning. It also only looks like it keeps the history for the spa/pool/heatlights, but none of the Aux inputs.

 

[ndakotaninja]

I was taking pictures of the wiring and while i was there inspecting them, the booster pump kicked on again for no reason. Because the wiring is a bit messy, i'm going to lay it out in writing too so you can follow the picture. the top section behind the buttons was also a little messy and hard to follow, but i'm not sure if you need anything from that. let me know if it would help or if you want anything else in addition to the info below.

This is for the bottom part of the panel where the electric is all ran to the black pieces (circuits?) and held with screws. Each black piece (4 in total) have 4 screws each. Only the first 2 circuits are being used right now.
Main power line comes in, line is split to feed the panel then connects to circuit 1, pin 1 for red, and 1-3 for black wires.
1-1 daisy chains to circuit 2, pin 1 for red, and 1-3 daisy chains to 2-3
circuit 1, pin 2 feeds SWG red wire and circuit 1, pin 4 feeds SWG black wire
circuit 1, pin 2 also has red wire that then splits to feed both heater and pump
circuit 1, pin 4 has black wire that spits to feed both heater and pump

circuit 2, pin 2 has solo red wire feed the booster pump and circuit 2, pin 4 feeds black wire to booster pump.

 

[Jimrahbe]

N, @ndakotaninja

What is the booster pump for? Is it for a pressure side cleaner, or an In-Floor-Cleaning System with pop up heads???

I am looking at the other stuff now.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

N,

Thanks for the "blow by blow" feedback on where each wire is going.. It helped a lot!!!

OK, here is the deal.. The Black Pieces are relays.. When the relay is on, it will connect pin 1 to pin 2 and pin 3 to pin 4. And yes, each one is called a Circuit.. The relay on the far left is called the Pump/Filter relay, then comes Aux 1, then Aux 2 and Aux 3..

The pump/filter relay is controlling the 240 volts going to the Main pump, SWCG power center, heater and the power to the Aux 1 relay. This means that the Aux 1 relay will do nothing unless the pump/filter is closed.

If you look at your schedule you are scheduled to be in the Pool mode (almost) 24/7.. This means that the Pump/Filter relay will be closed all but 1 minute a day. So the pump is not coming on because the EasyTouch is telling the pump to come on, (like it would with the IntelliFlo pump) it is coming on because the pump itself is has an internal schedule that is running inside the pump. I suggest the you change the Pool schedule 8 am until 8 am.. For now this will close the pump/filter all the time and should eliminate the Error the pump is seeing..

The Booster pump, which I am going to assume is for a pressure side cleaner, is most likely coming on because the Circuit Function for the Aux 1 relay is set to In-floor-cleaner. I suggest you use your PC and go into the step 2 of the config set up, highlight the Aux 1 line and change "Floor Cleaner" to "Generic"

As far as running your your pump...

Option one is to get the right pump..

Option two is to decide how you want the SuperFlo VS pump to run... Come up with a schedule that you will have to add through the pump's control panel.. Here is an example...

8 am to 1 pm at 1200 RPM (To generate chlorine)
1 pm to 3 pm at 3000 RPM (To generate chlorine and run the cleaner) (To make the cleaner work, you will need to add a schedule in the EasyTouch to turn on Aux 1 from 1 pm to 3 pm)
3 pm until 5 pm at 1800 RPM (To generate chlorine and to help skimming)
5 pm until 8 pm at 1200 RPM (To generate chlorine)

I am not saying to use this particular schedule, it is just to show you the basic concept as to what you will need to schedule inside your pump. If you had an IntelliFlo, you would schedule this inside your EasyTouch. Whatever schedule you decide, you need to make sure that the pump filter relay is only closed when the pump is running.. Not doing this "could" cause the cell to explode.. Does not happen often, but does happen as seen here on TFP...

I am sure you will have more questions, just ask..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ndakotaninja]

The booster pump is to support the polaris vacuum we have. I wasn't aware those settings for the circuit would do anything, I just thought it was a label and set it as a cleaner. I've changed it back to "generic" to see if it continues to randomly come on. I've already begun asking about switching pumps to the intelliflo, so hopefully that works out (you said you'd chip in on the cost, right?). What you say above makes a lot of sense, so let me ask a few final questions.

1. With Aux 1 being a 'generic' circuit now, it should only turn on when i hit the button or if i have a schedule? Seems like you agreed with the wiring they did for Aux 1.
2. with this control panel, 8am-8am works as 24 hours and it won't turn off/back on? The pool guy is the one that set the current schedule 1 minute off. I wasn't sure of the best way to set it for "24 hours".
3. the superflo has 3 settings/timers you can program (intelliflo has 8 i believe). He set the only program to run 24 hours at 2100 rpm, and said to use the "quick clean" button to ramp up to 3500 rpm when i use the booster pump or the spa. I can obviously use the schedule here to match the schedules i set in the control panel instead.
4. One of my original questions was what rpms I should be using for the pump when running the booster pump, heater, or swg. Obviously the SWG will error that there is not enough flow if it's too low, but what about the booster pump for the vaccum? Does the water need to flow through the heater at a higher speed when it's turned on?
5. and back to another original question...any downside to running 24 hours? Assuming i get a schedule set up to work with the booster pump, it seems like the benefit of a VS pump is you can run it slow for longer periods and still save money. I've always done a 7-10 hour cycle in the past, so i'm not sure the pros/cons of doing 24 hour pump schedule.

 

[Jimrahbe]

1. Yes.. I have no problem chipping in.. I'll send you what they pay me here at TFP...
2. Yes, 8 am to 8 am will provide power to the SuperFlo VS 24/7.. but.. it will not do anything other than that.. Schedules will have to come from inside the pump.
3. The SuperFlo pump will run the schedules that you put in it.. You will have to make sure of two things.. That the pump is running at whatever speed you need when the Aux 1 is scheduled to run.. And that the cell only gets power when the pump is running.. *** If you have the pump getting power 24/7 and schedule the pump to run for 12 hours, that means the cell will get power for 12 hours with the pump off.. This is a huge no-no..!!!

I am glad you are looking into getting the IntelliFlo.. I'm sure you can tell already what a huge pain it will be to us the SuperFlo.

4. Most of the time you have to have your main pump running at a good clip and run the booster pump to make the cleaner work.. But.. It really depends on your vacuum, your plumbing and your heater, so there is no magic number.. I suggest that you run the main pump at 3K or above and see how your cleaner works.. If it works well, drop the main pump speed down to 2K and see what happens.. At some point it won't work well anymore and you will know to increase the speed until it does.

5. I personally run my IntelliFlo 24/7... I like to add a little chlorine all the time.. I also like to skim all the time. I do not have a heater and can run my SWCG at 1200 RPM.. So my cost to run 24/7 is less than $20 bucks a month.. This is by no means a requirement, it is just something that I like to do..

You running 24/7, with the SuperFlo, would solve my main safety issue.. You would never have to worry about the SWCG running when the pump is off.

Speed wise, what you need to do is run about 2K and ensure the IC40 flow light is green.. Then keep reducing the speed until the red flow light comes on.. Add 100 or 200 RPM to the pump speed and call that the "slowest speed I ever want to run" speed.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ndakotaninja]

Thanks for that info. I did not update the SWG to pentair, so it will (hopefully) be the only manual thing I have to control. But the Aquarite I have has the same flow sensors and will say if it has no flow. My old Jandy heater also had a flow sensor, so if the MasterTemp does as well, then I should be able to play around with rpms to make sure I can find that "slowest speed i ever want to run" speed.

And as to the cell getting power, he stressed that the SWG can only get power if the pump is actually running because if the flow sensor goes bad, it would keep generating chlorine even though it's not running. So I can verify that it won't be a problem with that.

I think that covers what I needed for this. If i can get the Intelliflo pump installed, I'll play around with things and see if I can get everything set up. If I run into issues or have a question about setting up any circuits/valves (which I think you said I wouldn't need to use for just the spa/pool), I will probably send you a PM in the future. Thanks for the assistance!

 

[Jimrahbe]

And as to the cell getting power, he stressed that the SWG can only get power if the pump is actually running because if the flow sensor goes bad, it would keep generating chlorine even though it's not running. So I can verify that it won't be a problem with that.

Sorry, but your pool guys is an idiot.. Saltwater systems are supposed to have two safety devices. The Primary safety device is removing the AC power to the cell's power supply. The back-up safety device is the flow switch.. So, apparently your pool guy is happy to do away with your primary safety device and let you rely on just the back-up.. Will it work, sure.. Just like driving your car with the air bags turned off.. Nothing bad will happen right up to the point of impact.. ☹

Anytime..

Thanks,

Jim R.