Neglected pool almost fully resurrected

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Readings this morning after leaving the pool turned off overnight:
FC: 16
CC: 1.5

pH reads artificially high when FC>10, if your acid addition was based on the pH reading during SLAM, your pH may be too low.

I took that pH reading before beginning the Slam when the FC was around 3. Now that I have begun the slam, I am no longer doing the pH test and am relying on the FAS-DPD test.

I overestimated my pool volume quite a bit when I did my first calculation. I have a 4' shallow end and an 8' deep end, so I multiplied the area of the surface by an "average" depth of 6'. This gave me about 30,000 gallons. Later I did a more accurate calculation (using calculus!) and I got 19,000 gallons.

My pool is 40' long. It is 21.5' wide at the shallow end where the depth is 4' from the lip of the pool. It is about 18' wide at its narrowest and almost 19' wide at its deepest which is 8' deep. It also has a diving board at the deep end. I think the issue might be that I don't have it completely filled since the water level is a good several inches below the lip of the pool and a few inches below the top of the tiling. I will remeasure today and post a drawing.

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

I came home from work after a very sunny day to find my FC at 5.5. I added a single 1lb bag of 56% cal hypo to find that the FC went up to 9.5ppm. That should happen only with a pool volume of 15k gallons according to the instructions on the bag and also approximately by PoolMath. But the online calculators indicate that my pool volume is about 30k - 32k gallons. What gives?

Here is a rough sketch of my pool. Sorry I had to write over my pencil drawing with a pen to make the camera focus on it.


Any ideas on what is going on?

I am concerned that I might add a bit too much CYA in the coming days if I don't get my volume calculations right.

 

[achianese]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Here are a couple of ideas for sources of over-estimation of the pool volume:

1) Is the actual water really 8 feet deep in the deep end and 3.5 feet in the shallow end? If the water is 6 inches below the deck and the measurements are from the deck, that's about a 3,000 gallon difference.

2) Is the entire deep end really 8 feet, or is it only 8 feet in a small area at the center of the deep end? When I made this adjustment for my pool, it was another 3,000 gallons.

3) Have you tried to account for the difference between a 20x40 rectangle and the actual curved shape you have?

This is all if you're really interested in doing the geometry calculations. I think it's just as good to learn from your chlorine additions and adjust your volume based on them. The FC concentration in the solid cal-hypo is probably pretty accurate, so your recent measurement is probably accurate within 15-20% or so (accounting for plus or minus one drop in the FC test). If you do this a few times and take the average, it's even better.

 

[achianese]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Regarding CYA addition, it may be best to take a conservative approach and add about half what you think need at first, then test after a week. This is a good idea in general for chemical additions that have longer-lasting effects than chlorine (acid, borax, sodium bicarbonate, etc). CYA in particular takes a long time to show up on the test.

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Just as I was thinking that I was on the right track to getting the pool usable, I got into another crisis. I had replaced the seals on the pump and it worked fine for a few days. But this evening, the pump motor crapped out after making weird noises. Aaarrrgh!! I took out the pump and motor to investigate if something was stuck, but no such luck. I disconnected the impeller from the motor shaft to see if the problem is with the new shaft seal or something else. Well, the motor shaft does not spin freely and is making grinding noises.

Should I try to repair the motor or should I go ahead and replace the whole pump? If the pump should be replaced, how should I size it and what are my choices? I need the pump to be able to send the water to my two story rooftop solar heater. The current pump is 1.5HP wired for 115V from what I can see - I only saw one black wire, one white wire and one green wire. I did not test them out, but the black wire should be the only hot wire which implies 115V.

Also, how do I keep the algae from recolonizing the pool while the pump is out of action? Will keeping the FC at Slam levels be necessary for the whole time?

 

[kimkats]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

I will not speak on the pump as I do not really know that kind of stuff.

I can speak on trying to keep the algae from taking over. You can add chlorine and use a broom to move it around. You can also get in the pool and use your body to move it. You can also get a small submersible pump to move the water around.

The sooner you get a new pump the better of course.

You have come so far! Keep it up and you will have a clear pool to enjoy!

Kim

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

... doing the geometry calculations.

Now that I have a bit of down time, I think I will try to carefully measure the pool and calculate the volume.

I can speak on trying to keep the algae from taking over. You can add chlorine and use a broom to move it around.

Thanks. I will do that until I get the pump going again.

I was noodling around on the web and found links telling me that my Sta-rite Dyna-Glas 1.5HP pump has an AO Smith USQ1152 motor. Does anyone know what bearings it uses? I am guessing that the grinding noises that caused the pump to stop are coming from a failed motor bearing.

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Update:

I went ahead and dismantled the motor. The front and rear covers of the motor are connected together by four through bolts. Despite using WD-40 and oils, I could not remove those bolts cleanly. Only one bolt unscrewed and the other three broke. At least now I was able to get the motor shaft out and found that one of the two bearings on the shaft was shot. I went to a local bearing place (Bearing Engineering) and got a pair of 6203 bearings. It took me a couple of trips before I got the correct one. I was able to get the through bolts from Swimco. The local swimming pool guys and Leslies said that they don't carry these parts, but were kind enough to point me to Swimco.

I went to Autozone and rented a bearing puller and was able to pull out one bearing easily. The other one refused to come out easily. I tried to brute force and ended up breaking the outer ring of the bearing into pieces. That was when I noticed that there was a retaining ring/clip holding the bearing in place which was what was preventing me from removing it. So I needed a replacement retaining ring and remover/pliers which allowed me to get the ring out pretty easily. I used a Dremel to cut out the inner bearing ring that was stuck in place. The bearing puller could not hold the inner ring. So now I needed to put the replacement bearings on to the shaft. A piece of conduit like this one http://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-1-2-in-Rigid-Conduit-Coupling-64005/100353841 was wide enough to slip on to the shaft and allowed me to tap the inner ring into place. Next I needed to remove the broken off pieces of through bolts from the end cover. A cobalt drill bit from Home Depot did the trick nicely, but the problem was that the threads were destroyed. So I needed to get a 8-32 tap and re-thread the holes.

The research, the parts and repair to do this took more than a week. But the good thing is that the pump is working again. Because of the new bearings, the pump is MUCH quieter. Prior to the repair, I could hear the pump even through the patio doors. But now, I need to get close to the shed to even hear the pump.

Here is the picture of the broken ball in the bearing and the carnage:


The photo shows the broken bearing, through bolts etc.

For the repair, here are the parts I needed:
3 through bolts ($2)
2x 6203 bearings ($18)
1x drill bit ($4)
1x retaining ring ($3 for set)

I won't lie - I returned the pliers and the tap, otherwise the cost would have been higher. But still, I am glad that I got the repair done. Or else, I would have had to spring for a replacement pump @ $900 - $1200.

I restarted the SLAM yet again yesterday after getting the pump going. The water is now blue, but is still very murky. Wish me luck that I will have no more hurdles and will
have a clear pool in the next week or so.

 

[Butterfly]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

But still, I am glad that I got the repair done. Or else, I would have had to spring for a replacement pump @ $900 - $1200.

Big DIY save

Let us know how the SLAM goes.

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Big DIY save

Let us know how the SLAM goes.

Made a tremendous amount of progress. The shallow end is very clear, but the deep end still has just a little bit of murkiness. I can, however, clearly see the main drain at the deep end of the pool. I can also see a coin dropped in the deep end, though there is a bit of haziness. The improvement in the past 3 days has been quite dramatic. Every setback I had during this process got the disappointment quotient high with the kids. Since I feel that we are 95% there, we declared the pool open during the evening and the kids had a good time today. (The chlorine had pretty much burned off due to the sunshine. So I was not worried about chemicals.) Thank you TFP! I will post pictures later.

Speaking of the main drain, it looks like a dark mess with no cover. My son told me that the main drain seems to be clogged. The pool has one main drain, one skimmer and one return line. The skimmer has two holes, with suction through the hole away from the pool. The hole closer to the pool, which I think is connected to the main drain has no suction. I ran a snake through that hole and it seemed to go quite a distance, but could not poke through the main drain hole. Should I be worried?

 

[achianese]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

I can also see a coin dropped in the deep end

I've always heard that pools are money pits. But congratulations on getting your pool clean. Mine went through the same sequence after opening this season, and it does take a little while longer to reach perfect clarity. Once you get it, it should stay that way if you keep on top of your chemicals.

Hopefully someone with some knowledge of plumbing will be able to help with your question. As a novice question, do you have any valves before water goes into your pump? I can control suction from the skimmer vs. the main drain with a valve. If you could try running only from the drain, you could see what kind of flow it gets, being careful to turn the pump off quickly if it's really completely clogged. Your pressure gauge will read much lower than normal if water the pump is having trouble pulling water.

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

I've always heard that pools are money pits. But congratulations on getting your pool clean. Mine went through the same sequence after opening this season, and it does take a little while longer to reach perfect clarity.

LOL There is still a lot debris settling at the bottom of the pool when I don't brush it for several hours. When I get the Polaris 360 going again, I think it should clear up quicker. The Polaris had been left out in the backyard for several years and all the swivel connections are breaking one by one. I got one replaced at Leslies for $18 and got sticker shock. The part is available online for approx $9, which is still really expensive for such a small piece. I am getting a 3 pack for $26 from Amazon soon.

As a novice question, do you have any valves before water goes into your pump? I can control suction from the skimmer vs. the main drain with a valve.

No, there aren't any valves upstream of the pump. Is that normal or was it how the plumbing was done in the 20th century? It looks like if I need to get suction from the main drain, I need to have an inverted U hose connecting the two holes in the skimmer.

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Another problem - I thought that I should get the main drain blockage addressed and used a snake to try to poke a hole. However, this has apparently succeeded in poking a hole, but in the wrong place and has caused a leak. :grrrr: I should have left it well enough alone. The water level has dropped about 4 inches in two days. I thought that the leak might be in the pipe from the skimmer to the main drain since that is where I ran the snake. But I am not sure that is the case. The water level dropped sufficiently enough that the water cannot flow from the pool into the skimmer now. I thought if the leak was in the pipe, then the water level in the pool would remain steady, but the level in the skimmer would drop faster. But the level on both sides has dropped at an equal rate.

The questions now are:
- where is the leak?
- how do I find it?
- how do I get it plugged?

 

[achianese]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

Have you had any luck with this? Sorry I'm no help with plumbing.

 

[ShumateWB]

Re: New owner of neglected pool

No, no luck so far. Thanks for following my journey and keeping tabs.

I have let the pool level drop and it has gone down by about 5" in the last few days. I am guessing I am losing about 1.5 - 2" per day.

The forum archives suggest that the product "Fix A Leak" might work. I have ordered it and am awaiting its arrival. If that does not work, I might have to call the Scuba pool repair guys.

 

[ShumateWB]

Changed the title...

I used the Marlig Fix A Leak product and I must say that I am very impressed with it so far. It took a couple of days for me to confirm that it worked, but so far it has been holding steady and the water level is no longer dropping. I hope it continues to hold.

Now that I know that the main drain is blocked, could that be the reason why my pool is not fully 100% sparkling? My pool has only one main drain, one skimmer and one return. With the drain blocked, all the water has to go through the skimmer and it looks like the sediment "prefers" to settle than dutifully go through the skimmer. When I turn the pump off for a few hours, I can see debris coating some of the side walls. I keep reading about people who had sparkling pools in a matter of days, but mine has gone for a couple of weeks now with just the last bit stubbornly holding on. I am passing the OCLT, my CCs are below 0.5 and I can see the main drain very clearly, but when I brush the bottom of the pool, I can see sediment being stirred up.

I have the Polaris cleaner working now, even though some of the hose may be leaking a bit. When I run it, the flow level is reduced significantly because of the back pressure, but the good thing is that it roils up the water. But when I don't have it connected, the water flows through quicker. So is it better to let the Polaris cleaner running all the time and have it stir up the water? Or should I run the pump without Polaris and get more of the water go through the filter?

Thanks!