Move from 1.5" to 2" before or after 90°?

[everthustodeadbeats]

I currently have 1.5" pipes throughout the system (including underground) and I am redoing the plumbing on the pad to 2". On the suction side, I have three 1.5" lines coming up next to each other which I will combine into one 2" line feeding into the pump. My question is, when expanding from 1.5" to 2" on a 90° degree turn, is it better (i.e., less head loss) to expand before or after the turn? Or should I use a 2"-2"-1.5" reducing tee which would make it look more consistent with the other two lines and cap off the other end? Or does it not make a difference from a flow standpoint? My initial thought was to use a 2"-1.5" reducing elbow (in the red circle in the diagram below) but I can't find one at the big box stores, so I am looking for the most efficient replacement.

Diagram (hope this make sense):

Second question: Does it matter which order the lines are in? Based on where the pipes come up from the ground, the drain has to be last in line (i.e., closest to the pump), but the vacuum line can either be in the middle (as shown above) or the first in line (i.e., the one with a 90 instead of a tee). Is that preferable?

Thanks everybody!

 

[PoolStored]

It really won't matter for for either of options for expanding, or the order. Any difference will be minimal.

Rather than Ts, I would use a never lube valve for each of them so that you can control them.

 

[1poolman1]

I currently have 1.5" pipes throughout the system (including underground) and I am redoing the plumbing on the pad to 2". On the suction side, I have three 1.5" lines coming up next to each other which I will combine into one 2" line feeding into the pump. My question is, when expanding from 1.5" to 2" on a 90° degree turn, is it better (i.e., less head loss) to expand before or after the turn? Or should I use a 2"-2"-1.5" reducing tee which would make it look more consistent with the other two lines and cap off the other end? Or does it not make a difference from a flow standpoint? My initial thought was to use a 2"-1.5" reducing elbow (in the red circle in the diagram below) but I can't find one at the big box stores, so I am looking for the most efficient replacement.

Diagram (hope this make sense):
View attachment 514201
Second question: Does it matter which order the lines are in? Based on where the pipes come up from the ground, the drain has to be last in line (i.e., closest to the pump), but the vacuum line can either be in the middle (as shown above) or the first in line (i.e., the one with a 90 instead of a tee). Is that preferable?

Thanks everybody!

Doesn't matter, but those definitely need to be valves, as PoolStored said. Use 3-way valves, not ball valves in the lines.
Without valves, the flow to the pump will be from the port with the least restriction, your skimmer. You actually have to force a pump, by using valves, to pull water from deeper in the pool by restricting what it can get from higher in the vessel. If you use a suction cleaner, the main drain is not really needed as the cleaner becomes a moving main drain.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

Yes, I am going to use valves, I left them out of the diagram for simplicity.

I was going to use ball valves, however, given the huge disparity in cost compared with Jandy valves. But if it's really a big deal, I would reconsider.

I already have one 2-way Jandy valve and two old ball valves that I was planning to replace (plan was to replace them with new ball valves). The problem with the 3-way valves is that you cannot easily close the branch of the T (so that the water runs straight), because of the physical stops built into the valve, without picking up the handle or unscrewing and reconfiguring the whole top, right? So is that what I would need to do, reconfigure the valve? Because based on my diagram if those tees were valves and you closed a run instead of the branch, you wouldn't just be shutting off that particular source (drain or skimmer or vac), you'd be completely cutting off and dead heading the pump, no?

 

[PoolStored]

I was going to use ball valves, however, given the huge disparity in cost compared with Jandy valves. But if it's really a big deal, I would reconsider.

Pay once cry once. Do it and don't look back. Way easier to rebuild the jandy than cut/hack/connect new pvc.

because of the physical stops built into the valve, without picking up the handle or unscrewing and reconfiguring the whole top, right? So is that what I would need to do, reconfigure the valve? Because based on my diagram if those tees were valves and you closed a run instead of the branch, you wouldn't just be shutting off that particular source (drain or skimmer or vac), you'd be completely cutting off and dead heading the pump, no?

Don't quite understand. There are adjustable pins so you can limit the swing of the gate. Or you can take the pins out and have full range of motion.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

Okay, thanks. So with a 3-way valve, I still have a question about when to change from 1.5" to 2". I think most diverter valves can support both sizes, 1.5" if you glue from the inside, and 2" if you glue from the outside. Is that the best place to convert--have two 1.5" lines going in (drain and skimmers) and a 2" going out? Does it make a difference if I keep the outlet 1.5" as well and then use a bushing to expand to 2"?

Either way I'll have to use a tee to link up the combined drain/skimmer line with the vac line (which will have its own 2-way valve) before returning to the pump. Can this tee be where I convert from 1.5" to 2" or is it better to have both lines already converted to 2" before entering the final tee?

 

[1poolman1]

Okay, thanks. So with a 3-way valve, I still have a question about when to change from 1.5" to 2". I think most diverter valves can support both sizes, 1.5" if you glue from the inside, and 2" if you glue from the outside. Is that the best place to convert--have two 1.5" lines going in (drain and skimmers) and a 2" going out? Does it make a difference if I keep the outlet 1.5" as well and then use a bushing to expand to 2"?

Either way I'll have to use a tee to link up the combined drain/skimmer line with the vac line (which will have its own 2-way valve) before returning to the pump. Can this tee be where I convert from 1.5" to 2" or is it better to have both lines already converted to 2" before entering the final tee?

View attachment 514468

The vast majority of pools I deal with that have valves in front of the pump are this configuration.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

Anybody familiar with and/or have an opinion on this budget 1.5" diverter valve from Fibropool? It's currently 15 bucks, a little smaller internally than your standard Jandy valve, and is not compatible with electric actuators, but otherwise seems to be better than ball valves in every respect.
Amazon.com (slip)
Amazon.com (threaded)

 

[PoolStored]

Schedule 40 at 1.5" has a pressure rating of 330psi. That valve has a pressure rating of 150psi. *I* ouldn't put that thing on *my* pool. Get the Jandy or comparable. More times that not, I've seen more problems because people tried to save a few dollars, only to end up spending more money in the end.

Pay me know or pay me later.

Pay once, cry once.

You get what you pay for.

Pick your phrase.

 

[1poolman1]

Anybody familiar with and/or have an opinion on this budget 1.5" diverter valve from Fibropool? It's currently 15 bucks, a little smaller internally than your standard Jandy valve, and is not compatible with electric actuators, but otherwise seems to be better than ball valves in every respect.
Amazon.com (slip)
Amazon.com (threaded)

If you decide to go ahead and use those, get the socket not the threaded. Its too easy for a threaded connection to leak at some point and then it would have to be cut out to seal it. A properly glued joint will never leak.

I wouldn't use those valves, especially on the suction-cleaner line, because the throat is very small and, try as hard as we do, debris will get past a basket, suction cleaner in-line leaf trap, bottom drain cover, and it looks like that valve would be very easy to clog.

Fibro makes full-sized Jandy clones for less than OEM and since the position will not be changed that often they would seem to work well. As Poolstored said, "Pick your phrase."

Another, "The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded." This is a one-time purchase, so a year from now you won't even remember the extra $40.00.