coldpoolcanada

New member
Apr 14, 2023
1
Toronto
Now the topic of if a solar cover is effective, when it should be on, etc has been exhausted with the general consensus being to leave a solar cover on as often as possible.
However, I am curious about the effects of a solar cover when there is a drastic difference between the temperature of the water and ambient.
Let me explain my situation:

Here in Toronto, we just came out of winter and have unseasonal highs. This means that it's 27C outside, but my pool temperature is less than 15C.
At such a drastic temperature difference, would the solar cover act as an insulator, keeping the pool cold for longer?

It seems that this question has been asked before here, with a single user providing an anecdotal response
Does the TFP community have any thoughts on this?
 
My personal experience says take the cover off during the day to let the sun warm up the pool. Put the cover on at night to prevent evaporation. Its a pain to do, but that is how you will get the best results.
 
Hi,

I have a 20'x'40' In-ground vinyl liner pool (36,000 gallons). I'm located in Pittsburgh, PA. So, our weather/climate is not too different from Toronto I think.

I have either 12 or 16 mil blue clear cover. I read the post you linked earlier, and I think he has some good points. I will say, April is probably the soonest that solar gain from the sun through a solar cover will be significant, and late Sept is the latest, in my experience. I think that is the biggest factor, and then air temp is the second.

You mention pool being 15C (59F for me), and air being 27C (80F).

If it's a fully sunny day, and no/low wind, leaving the cover off is probably the best solution. If you have wind above say 5mph all day, then you are probably better off keeping your solar cover on. With that scenario, you are going to be gaining heat from the sun, but losing from evaporation effects, and possibly getting lots of debris in your pool.

For me, it's almost always a 5mph or more wind here in Pittsburgh, and so I leave my solar cover on all the time. On a fully sunny day in April, and air temp is at least 15C (60F), the top foot of water will reach 80 to 90F (27C or above). So, I have set my pool pump to run automatically between 11am and 4pm to mix/distribute the warm water in the pool. Otherwise, it just sits at the top, and doesn't really warm the lower depths very well, but instead loses it's heat to the air.

I took my winter solid cover off on April 11th, and put on my solar cover to take advantage of the warm weather (we missed a week of it, as we were on Easter break). The water temp was a chilly 53F (11C). Today, the water temp is 60F (15C). I haven't run my 140K BTU HP yet. And the temps were in the 80's by day for a while, but have been in the 50 and 60's the past last week.. So, you have a combined air temp and solar heat gain happening, which is helped by my pump circulation.

When it starts getting into the mid 70's or 80's in May for a period, I will then run the HP during the day (8 hours minimum) with the solar cover on. I find that I can go from approx 60F (15C) to 80F (27C) pool temp in about 2 days of HP running with warm/sunny days. The HP gives approx 5 to 7 F temp rise a day, with the rest from solar gain.

Once we reach June, HP isn't even necessary with the solar cover. I easily maintain 82F to 86F pool temps with it on. And as July approaches, we start to hit 86F to 90F (which honestly is getting too warm for me). The only time I turn on the HP from Mid-June to end of August is to simulate a hot tub by the return jet (a poor mans hot tub perhaps, but it's probably 100F water coming out then).

We bought our current house in June 2020, so the pool was reasonably warm by that month, but it had no heater, and an opaque bubble cover. When we put on a clear blue solar cover the next year, the difference in solar heating was easily felt with the pool being warmer and just more comfortable). And of course adding the heat pump later the next year, helped even more.

Now the topic of if a solar cover is effective, when it should be on, etc has been exhausted with the general consensus being to leave a solar cover on as often as possible.
However, I am curious about the effects of a solar cover when there is a drastic difference between the temperature of the water and ambient.
Let me explain my situation:

Here in Toronto, we just came out of winter and have unseasonal highs. This means that it's 27C outside, but my pool temperature is less than 15C.
At such a drastic temperature difference, would the solar cover act as an insulator, keeping the pool cold for longer?

It seems that this question has been asked before here, with a single user providing an anecdotal response
Does the TFP community have any thoughts on this?
 
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I will also add, gas heaters are an ideal addition for northern climates like ours. I am considering adding a 300K to 400K BTU one to my pool setup, for exactly the scenario of a couple 80 degree days in April/early May, or mid Sept to Oct. You can then heat your pool easily within 24 hours, and enjoy the warm weather, and not have to strain to try to keep it warm during the beginning/end of season. For the HP/solar cover route to work during these periods, you need at least 2 good 75F+ sunny days to warm up to normal pool temps, which can be challenging in those periods, especially with nights being below 60F. Those really tend to sap the heat from the pool with only a solar cover on.

In the near future, I plan on adding an automatic cover, which I believe has better thermal properties to prevent more nighttime heat loss (and better insulate pool walls when vinyl liner replacement come due). Lot's of options, and if you don't mind spending the money, you can pretty much swim almost anytime the weather is warm from April to mid Oct. That said, in our current setup, we probably add month to month and a half to our swim season. Mid-May, to End of Sept (but pool temp is more temp dependent than I'd like).
 
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Now the topic of if a solar cover is effective, when it should be on, etc has been exhausted with the general consensus being to leave a solar cover on as often as possible.
However, I am curious about the effects of a solar cover when there is a drastic difference between the temperature of the water and ambient.
Let me explain my situation:

Here in Toronto, we just came out of winter and have unseasonal highs. This means that it's 27C outside, but my pool temperature is less than 15C.
At such a drastic temperature difference, would the solar cover act as an insulator, keeping the pool cold for longer?

It seems that this question has been asked before here, with a single user providing an anecdotal response
Does the TFP community have any thoughts on this?


Ooppps, I just noticed that the thread was weeks ago, LMAO.
 
I will also add, gas heaters are an ideal addition for northern climates like ours. I am considering adding a 300K to 400K BTU one to my pool setup, for exactly the scenario of a couple 80 degree days in April/early May, or mid Sept to Oct. You can then heat your pool easily within 24 hours, and enjoy the warm weather, and not have to strain to try to keep it warm during the beginning/end of season. For the HP/solar cover route to work during these periods, you need at least 2 good 75F+ sunny days to warm up to normal pool temps, which can be challenging in those periods, especially with nights being below 60F. Those really tend to sap the heat from the pool with only a solar cover on.

In the near future, I plan on adding an automatic cover, which I believe has better thermal properties to prevent more nighttime heat loss (and better insulate pool walls when vinyl liner replacement come due). Lot's of options, and if you don't mind spending the money, you can pretty much swim almost anytime the weather is warm from April to mid Oct. That said, in our current setup, we probably add month to month and a half to our swim season. Mid-May, to End of Sept (but pool temp is more temp dependent than I'd like).
Whats this automatic cover you're referring too?

I have a approx 400k BTU heater. The sun hits the pool quite a bit (it's already 70 degrees and I haven't turned on the heater yet) I may or may not have to before this season, but going into October I may.
 
Whats this automatic cover you're referring too?

I have a approx 400k BTU heater. The sun hits the pool quite a bit (it's already 70 degrees and I haven't turned on the heater yet) I may or may not have to before this season, but going into October I may.
An automatic pool cover. It runs on tracks, and has an electric motor in a housing.
Something like this. AutoGuard Top Track System | Automatic Pool Covers

We always use our solar cover, but honestly, it's a bit of a PITA, as the kids have to wait for one of the adults to roll up the cover, and then we have to pull it shut. It's not terrible, but detracts from the spontaneous swimming so to speak.

As for pool heating, my water temp for the last week has been 82 to 84F during the day, depending on the amount of sun. I haven't run my 140K BTU HP that much. Probably 48 hours total the past few weeks. And with the upcoming warm temps, probably almost not at all, unless we want what we call the "hot tub" temps by the return jet.

That 400K BTU heater sounds very nice for sure.
 
An automatic pool cover. It runs on tracks, and has an electric motor in a housing.
Something like this. AutoGuard Top Track System | Automatic Pool Covers

We always use our solar cover, but honestly, it's a bit of a PITA, as the kids have to wait for one of the adults to roll up the cover, and then we have to pull it shut. It's not terrible, but detracts from the spontaneous swimming so to speak.

As for pool heating, my water temp for the last week has been 82 to 84F during the day, depending on the amount of sun. I haven't run my 140K BTU HP that much. Probably 48 hours total the past few weeks. And with the upcoming warm temps, probably almost not at all, unless we want what we call the "hot tub" temps by the return jet.

That 400K BTU heater sounds very nice for sure.
How much does that cover run? If they don't list the price.. :LOL:
 

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How much does that cover run? If they don't list the price.. :LOL:
Hi, sorry haven't checked this site in a few days.

This is the automatic cover I am looking to get. My pool is 20x40 and including track length and width, need to get the 999 SF one. https://www.royalswimmingpools.com/on-deck-track-automatic-cover-up-to-999-sf.html

$8K approximately for my size pool. Smaller pools are cheaper for almost everything, sometimes I wish I had a smaller one. We already have the U-channel laid in the concrete for the tracks, and the in-ground concrete box, and several 3/4" and 1/2" LiquidTite conduit ran for power and keypad, and floor boxes and kitchen outlets, plus drain and water lines.

I planned pretty well for this during our pool deck concrete pour, but always seems some detail is missed. As it turned out, the left track U-channel wasn't put parallel to the pool, and needs redone, concrete guys told me the pool wasn't quite square, and being busy managing everything else and getting the right track and box dimensions, I took their word for it. I may just use a top track on that side, it's only 1" tall, and is rounded. At least the concrete box is done properly, since it would be a disaster if it wasn't, you can't easily make it bigger when you have about 12" of concrete around the box. They actually ran out of concrete pouring the box, and wait an hour for another truck.

The Lord willing, I plan to install it myself with some help from a handy friend or two as needed. I think something like this installed would be in the $14K to $20K range, depending on how much work/planning they have to do, and if you can afford it, it's well worth it. Perhaps in hindsight, I should've tried to pay a pool company to at least come and oversee the planning/track install, but lessons learned. 20230531_185358 (Large).jpg20220606_083336 (Large).jpg
 
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Hi, sorry haven't checked this site in a few days.

This is the automatic cover I am looking to get. My pool is 20x40 and including track length and width, need to get the 999 SF one. https://www.royalswimmingpools.com/on-deck-track-automatic-cover-up-to-999-sf.html

$8K approximately for my size pool. Smaller pools are cheaper for almost everything, sometimes I wish I had a smaller one. We already have the U-channel laid in the concrete for the tracks, and the in-ground concrete box, and several 3/4" and 1/2" LiquidTite conduit ran for power and keypad, and floor boxes and kitchen outlets, plus drain and water lines.

I planned pretty well for this during our pool deck concrete pour, but always seems some detail is missed. As it turned out, the left track U-channel wasn't put parallel to the pool, and needs redone, concrete guys told me the pool wasn't quite square, and being busy managing everything else and getting the right track and box dimensions, I took their word for it. I may just use a top track on that side, it's only 1" tall, and is rounded. At least the concrete box is done properly, since it would be a disaster if it wasn't, you can't easily make it bigger when you have about 12" of concrete around the box. They actually ran out of concrete pouring the box, and wait an hour for another truck.

The Lord willing, I plan to install it myself with some help from a handy friend or two as needed. I think something like this installed would be in the $14K to $20K range, depending on how much work/planning they have to do, and if you can afford it, it's well worth it. Perhaps in hindsight, I should've tried to pay a pool company to at least come and oversee the planning/track install, but lessons learned. View attachment 503166View attachment 503165
Holy moly. I am envious, but its way out of my price range!
 
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