Marble pavers - sand or no sand?

[Zakk]

So, I just had new leathered marble pavers installed on sand over an existing concrete deck in Florida. Right now there is no sand between the pavers (in the joints). I commonly hear that polymeric sand is the way to go and that the only downside is the cost and was about to install that when an industry pro told me not to use any sand because it is unnecessary and may actually cause issues with locking moisture in. Another pro told me to use regular sand because, while the polymeric forms a nice barrier, it flakes and chips over time and you can't just add more sand to it so it becomes a real pain in the butt. I would really love to know what your experiences are with this if you have marble pavers. Again, mine are leathered marble, not travertine. As a bonus, if you can give any feedback on the type of coating or sealer you may have used, that would be fantastic.

 

[Bperry]

So, I just had new leathered marble pavers installed on sand over an existing concrete deck in Florida. Right now there is no sand between the pavers (in the joints). I commonly hear that polymeric sand is the way to go and that the only downside is the cost and was about to install that when an industry pro told me not to use any sand because it is unnecessary and may actually cause issues with locking moisture in. Another pro told me to use regular sand because, while the polymeric forms a nice barrier, it flakes and chips over time and you can't just add more sand to it so it becomes a real pain in the butt. I would really love to know what your experiences are with this if you have marble pavers. Again, mine are leathered marble, not travertine. As a bonus, if you can give any feedback on the type of coating or sealer you may have used, that would be fantastic.

I’m on the side of the second pro. The polymeric sand doesn’t last long and cracks which negates any sealing advantage. Regular sand or stone dust is a better option IMO.

 

[newdude]

I will be the yin to Bperry's yang.

I tore out a brick over sand patio that was a neverending ant oasis. We put in pavers directly over a slab (no base)and polymeric sand in the joints and not one ant has been found 2 full seasons later.

 

[Katodude]

Doesn’t Polymeric sand require a certain minimum space between the pavers to work?

Depends on your setup. Pictures please.

 

[Toxophilite]

Flakes and chips is not how I would describe polymeric sand. It's just sand with a binder that makes is sticky, kinda rubbery, more like a mud pack if it never dried out. At all times it can be washed or brushed out, hence it doesn't last all that long but my experience it lasts a bit longer than sand without the poly. Neither are permanent enough to fret the difference though.

 

[Bperry]

Flakes and chips is not how I would describe polymeric sand. It's just sand with a binder that makes is sticky, kinda rubbery, more like a mud pack if it never dried out. At all times it can be washed or brushed out, hence it doesn't last all that long but my experience it lasts a bit longer than sand without the poly. Neither are permanent enough to fret the difference though.

I’ve never seen any that was rubbery/sticky. I wonder if there’s different styles or maybe bad application. The style I’ve seen is rigid, but doesn’t stick to the sides of pavers if any movement occurs, so you end up with a crack that opens up. If you get a couple cracks, the pieces can come out as chips. My experience was from a patio my family had done 15+ years ago. Maybe there’s better tech now.

I think a rubbery style would actually work a bit better?

 

[Toxophilite]

I’ve never seen any that was rubbery/sticky. I wonder if there’s different styles or maybe bad application. The style I’ve seen is rigid, but doesn’t stick to the sides of pavers if any movement occurs, so you end up with a crack that opens up. If you get a couple cracks, the pieces can come out as chips. My experience was from a patio my family had done 15+ years ago. Maybe there’s better tech now.

I think a rubbery style would actually work a bit better?

I always buy the polymeric sand from Home Depot, EZ Sand. When you wet it, it just turns rubbery. It never hardens, but is more just a sticky mass. Dry sticky mass is more descriptive. I'm not sure of other makes and models of poly though.

 

[CopperGirl]

Been there done that with Polymeric sand and don't ever care to go there again. Hard rain washes it out...it's a pain (and a mess) to re-do and at least in S. FL it develops mold and weeds come through. This was pavers over sand that it was used on.

 

[Schwimmbad]

For what it's worth, my hardscape contractor uses this DYNA Optimatrix with travertine in AZ and swears by it.

Not sure if it's a option for you since their limitations states "Do not use if the pavement surface is installed directly on concrete or does not have a drainage bed."