Major leak. Bottom drain or skimmer/main valve

[pypeke]

I noticed that the skimmer/main valve is dripping every second. I uncovered the pool today, and there is only 8 inches of water left in the 3 ft shallow ends. Our pool starts at 3 ft on each end and goes to 6 ft deep in the center. Concrete bottom and metal panels on the walls. Picture was taken when we paid a company to put in a new liner and repair any problems. They ordered the liner and said they would repair everything. We were on vacation for two weeks when they did the work. When we got back, we got in the pool and noticed sunken areas in the bottom. The liner had sunken in the holes. The man said the concrete collapsed in places when he walked on it because he left it empty too long. We had paid for half of the liner and installation up front, and would have paid the other half plus the concrete repairs when we got home. He moved and disconnected his phone number and never fixed it so we never paid the rest. We hoped that we could get the concrete repaired when we replaced the liner again. So, we had a slight leak every year. We would lose about 3" of water from October to April. We thought it was a plumbing leak.


It looks like duct tape on the seams?

Three sides are rock wall/concrete. The deck is concrete around the pool, plus more concrete patio on the side with some wood deck.


The concrete patio past the pool started shifting down after we began having more earthquakes due to oil/gas wells being dug. We never had any earthquakes before 10-15 years ago, and I have lived here 65 years. The crack between the two separately poured patios is getting wider and the patio is shifting downward.


So hopefully, this will be fixed with a new skimmer/main valve. There is no way to cut off the water from the pool, so I think it needs a cut off valve between the rock wall and the skimmer/main valve. Looks like a great time to finish emptying the pool to replace the valve.

1. How long can we wait for repair since the pool only has 8 inches of water on the ends? I don't want it to float up. I don't want to refill it either because water is very expensive. The local pool company that opens and closes pools is an hour away, and he can't get here for a month. What do I do in the meantime? Of course, he will want me to use his chemicals instead of bleach.

2. If the valve is dripping every second, could that be the ONLY source of the leak? Would we lose that much from October to May? Or should I worry about those concrete cracks?

3. What is the chance I need to install a whole new pool with concrete deck and concrete/rock walls? We are selling and moving this year so I don't want that much expense.

4. If I need a whole new pool, and a new patio since it seems to be shifting downward, what gets done first? The patio or the pool? Good pool contractors are two hours drive away. Four hours a day spent driving round trip if they work 8 hours a day. How do I choose a good pool builder? Will the builder fix the patio that is shifting or will that be a different contractor?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Texas Splash]

I hesitated to chime-in on this thread only because it's seems to be such an overwhelming scenario. A massive project with as you mentioned, the potential for a complete renovation from the ground up. Sad that previous contractor work probably made things worse. Certainly we never advise leaving a pool completely empty, but it seems you have some things to assess to determine if it's cost effective to repair the pool now or pull the plug and start over. If you decide to salvage this pool, it sounds as though you need to confirm the stability of the pool walls and floor. I couldn't tell from the pic by I'm assuming you have a main drain, so it may have a hydrostatic vale that needs replacing. That is if the drain is even serviceable. If not, you might end-up plugging it and just using the skimmer which is fine. But you need a pool shell that is stable and water tight. You definitely need a way to shut-off and control water to/from the equipment pad. This might be a good time to completely renovate the equipment pad. If we assume you can salvage the existing pool, then the cosmetic issues above like the concrete patio might be a battle for another day. You might find yourself putting together some price estimates for either scenario (repair or replace) and go from there.

 

[pypeke]

It is a mess, isn't it? Only 1 side of the pool is underground. 3 sides are covered with rock wall. If we can save it, we would be happy. The pool is unique in that there is no problem with it floating up when empty. (according to the only pool company within an hour of our home. They have opened and closed it for years.) No actual pool builders within 2 hours drive. No "experts" of anything near us! I guess an engineer would be the one to look at the concrete????

The Compool valve was cracked so that is how the pool drained. We had about 8" of water left on each 3' end. Pool guy said hydrostatic pressure was less when the pool emptied so the leak slowed. He removed the cracked Compool valve and put two separate valves on. Main drain and skimmer drain. It looks like the vinyl liner is still good. No leaks even where the concrete has sunken. Maybe we will get another year out of the pool. We are still SLAMing so we will know more when the pool clears. Last year, we did dye tests and there were no liner leaks.

Do the new valves look right? I know the long runs of pipes to get to the pump is not a good idea, but there is nothing we can do about that. The lake had never been up that high in over 50 years. It floods every year now on our land, not the Corp's. Owners/builder just put the pool in a stupid place!

We plan on selling once our bathrooms are renovated so we really don't want to install a new pool. Bathrooms have been gutted for three years! No one wants a "small job" when there is a multi-million dollar, gated community three miles from us. All contractors work on building those homes. Rural living sucks!

I have questions since it looks like we can save the pool for another year:
1. The pool opener/closer guy said we can use the two new valves to "blow out" the lines at the union. He said he would blow out the water from the main drain and skimmer. What he would use to blow it out? An air compressor with some sort of attachment? The return lines will drain by gravity once the returns are closed.

2. How does he keep water from going back down into the pipes? Does he keep blowing air into the main drain or skimmer, then turn off the blue valves? I asked if he had to dive down to the bottom, unscrew the drain cover, and put some sort of plug in the bottom drain, and he said no. He said once he shuts the blue valves, the water from the bottom of the pool will not go back inside the pipes. He said air will be inside the lines. How? Wouldn't the air bubble out the main drain?

It seldom freezes here so we have been lucky that the main drain line has not frozen and burst. It is probably why the Compool valve cracked. If the "blow out" works, that will save the lines if we get a bad freeze. The main drain is very deep underground behind the rock wall.





3. Picture below is what he removed...I guess we did not need a new one? Are there any O-rings to lube in those new blue valves? Any problems with what he did?





4. Since the liquid chlorine shortage, we have thought about getting a SWG. I am guessing we wouldn't get much of a savings if we are going to sell our house, but it might help sell the house. Would it be worth it for such a small pool? 17,000 gallons. We would need to learn how to install it ourself.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Texas Splash]

What he would use to blow it out? An air compressor with some sort of attachment?

A Cyclone blower is one of the more popular choices. It's not about pressure, but more of air volume, and those Cyclones do very well clearing lines.

How does he keep water from going back down into the pipes?

Winterizing plugs. There are several different models depending on what a pool owner (or tech) needs to do. Very common.

The blue shut-off ball valves are not our number one choice, but they will work and should get you past your project. Unlike 3-way valves that have a removable top and internal seals, there's nothing you can do to maintain those. At least you seem to have the system in a better status now.