Main drain or no in my new pool

[Simm7]

I am looking for some feedback on whether to install main drains in my vinyl liner pool currently in construction. It is 40 x 20 rectangular with an 8 foot deep end. I’ve read all the pros and cons and my current thought process is that the cost is not my concern and I already have the parts, I am also not worried about entrapment with the dual main drain design. But I am concerned about his longevity and the potential for leaks. From a maintenance and cleaning standpoint. I don’t mind extra work brushing and vacuuming if it’s needed and I will have two skimmers and four returns . I am really leaning towards not putting in the main drains again purely from a risk of a leak down the road. Unless it is easily closed off if it does leak? With the body of the drain being plastic I just don’t see how it won’t degrade with time.
Thanks

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It’s not the drain that leaks, it’s the seal that holds the vinyl to the drain body, or the plumbing, or both. Any penetration in a vinyl liner needs to be properly sealed. The problem with the main drain is that it is the very bottom of the pool. So a leak there will pretty much empty the entire pool.

The only major benefit a main drain can afford is improving heater performance. Without a main drain to circulate water out of the hopper, you’ll have warm surface water and cold deep water. A decent robot or automatic vacuum can help with water distribution but an independently controlled main drain is best.

I would not put a main drain in if I have to build a liner pool. But that’s just my one opinion.

 

[Simm7]

It’s not the drain that leaks, it’s the seal that holds the vinyl to the drain body, or the plumbing, or both. Any penetration in a vinyl liner needs to be properly sealed. The problem with the main drain is that it is the very bottom of the pool. So a leak there will pretty much empty the entire pool.

The only major benefit a main drain can afford is improving heater performance. Without a main drain to circulate water out of the hopper, you’ll have warm surface water and cold deep water. A decent robot or automatic vacuum can help with water distribution but an independently controlled main drain is best.

I would not put a main drain in if I have to build a liner pool. But that’s just my one opinion.

Thanks for the reply. Yes I do understand that temperature stratification will occur. My thought that will have a separate suction port at the equipment pad where the main drain line would otherwise have come in. If the temperature becomes problematic I could just connect a 1 1/2” or 2” hose and and submerge it periodically in the deep end when not in use to create some circulation. My equipment pad is only 20’ from the pool edge.

 

[Newdude]

While I agree that drains aren't needed, they sure come in handy at times.

You'll close your pool each winter and will need to drain below the skimmers. Using the pool pump will take minutes VS hours with a submersible pump. You have to sit out there to ensure the pump doesn't lose prime, but it's only for 15 or 20 mins.

I often sweep crud to mine. They don't suck like a vacuum would, but if I stir it up at the drains, they'll get most of whatever dust/pollen I had.

I also need them in heavy rains or my SWG throws a low salt alarm and shuts off for 12 hours if the rain happens during its 2 self checks a day. Or if I didn't catch it in time and the unit shut off, pulling from the main drains is the only way I get it to work again anytime soon.

 

[Homebrewale]

The main benefit I saw with main drains when I owned a vinyl lined pool is that it was more likely the pump would maintain flow if there was a major storm that dumped leaves into the pool. The skimmer baskets would get clogged first before the main drain covers. Only important when I'm away on vacation and nobody is checking the pool.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Are you including a suction wall port in your design so that you can run a suction side vacuum? That would be a good trade off as a suction cleaner can be thought of like a moving main drain. Plus then you don’t have to use any of the skimmers for suction vacuuming, you have a dedicated wall port for that. I would sooner fill my pool in with dirt than not have a suction port.

 

[Simm7]

Are you including a suction wall port in your design so that you can run a suction side vacuum? That would be a good trade off as a suction cleaner can be thought of like a moving main drain. Plus then you don’t have to use any of the skimmers for suction vacuuming, you have a dedicated wall port for that. I would sooner fill my pool in with dirt than not have a suction port.

I was going to have a dedicated suction port at the equipment pad which is relatively close to the pool edge. I am trying to minimize the number of holes in my liner. Is this option ok?

 

[Simm7]

While I agree that drains aren't needed, they sure come in handy at times.

You'll close your pool each winter and will need to drain below the skimmers. Using the pool pump will take minutes VS hours with a submersible pump. You have to sit out there to ensure the pump doesn't lose prime, but it's only for 15 or 20 mins.

I often sweep crud to mine. They don't suck like a vacuum would, but if I stir it up at the drains, they'll get most of whatever dust/pollen I had.

I also need them in heavy rains or my SWG throws a low salt alarm and shuts off for 12 hours if the rain happens during its 2 self checks a day. Or if I didn't catch it in time and the unit shut off, pulling from the main drains is the only way I get it to work again anytime soon.

Thanks for the reply. Have you had any issues with leaks on your main drains? Also it looks like you are in NY. Any winterizing issues on the main drain line?

 

[wireform]

I deal with many liner pools and almost all have MD,s and a pressure side port without problems. Good builder practices eliminate all the issues. More importantly is the homeowner needs to know the do's and don't of a liner pool.

 

[Newdude]

Have you had any issues with leaks on your main drains? Also it looks like you are in NY. Any winterizing issues on the main drain line?

Nope and nope. IMO all are overblown. Problems happen, yes, but not at a rate it matters.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I was going to have a dedicated suction port at the equipment pad which is relatively close to the pool edge. I am trying to minimize the number of holes in my liner. Is this option ok?

Nope. You do not want to try to run hoses above ground. Too many problems.

I suggest constructing the pool with a dedicated port either for a pressure cleaner like a Polaris OR a suction cleaner. Running either of those cleaners in the pool eliminates the temperature stratification issue. I am more partial to suction cleaners than pressure cleaners mainly because there isn’t a need to have an extra booster pump, but everyone has their pros and cons on that.

As I said, my opinion is that I would not put a main drain in a liner pool. That’s me. You do you …

PS - I’d also not build a deep pool with a hopper and diving board. If you don’t have a deep diving pool, then a main drain is even less necessary. But I’m also a westerner (transplanted from the East) and we don’t build deep pools here in the southwest. 15,000 gallons of water to take care of is more than enough for me and my family.

PPS - my shallow western pool (gunite/plaster) does have a main drain which is effectively useless. Gunite pools do spring MD leaks every so often especially with age and very few people try to fix them … you just seal them up with cement and deprecate the plumbing line. When people abandon the MDs, they cery often see absolutely no difference in their pools … MDs aren’t necessary, they are an anachronism from the long ago past when pools were LITERALLY drained every week or so once the water became scummy and the only way to effectively and quickly drain a pool was to pull the cork (sometimes quite literally) on the main DRAIN line …

 

[Simm7]

Nope. You do not want to try to run hoses above ground. Too many problems.

I suggest constructing the pool with a dedicated port either for a pressure cleaner like a Polaris OR a suction cleaner. Running either of those cleaners in the pool eliminates the temperature stratification issue. I am more partial to suction cleaners than pressure cleaners mainly because there isn’t a need to have an extra booster pump, but everyone has their pros and cons on that.

As I said, my opinion is that I would not put a main drain in a liner pool. That’s me. You do you …

PS - I’d also not build a deep pool with a hopper and diving board. If you don’t have a deep diving pool, then a main drain is even less necessary. But I’m also a westerner (transplanted from the East) and we don’t build deep pools here in the southwest. 15,000 gallons of water to take care of is more than enough for me and my family.

PPS - my shallow western pool (gunite/plaster) does have a main drain which is effectively useless. Gunite pools do spring MD leaks every so often especially with age and very few people try to fix them … you just seal them up with cement and deprecate the plumbing line. When people abandon the MDs, they cery often see absolutely no difference in their pools … MDs aren’t necessary, they are an anachronism from the long ago past when pools were LITERALLY drained every week or so once the water became scummy and the only way to effectively and quickly drain a pool was to pull the cork (sometimes quite literally) on the main DRAIN line …

Yes I wish in hindsight I would have chosen no deep end but the taller wall option like 48 or 54” but I am already into it with my hole dug and parts arrived. Excavation would have been easier and the vermiculite base would have been way easier. Definitely not putting in a diving board which would be one more thing I don’t want to deal with. My plan was to keep it simple but usable so not many extras like no auto cover, decks jets etc. I have one large Pentair led light, 4 returns and two skimmers plus the decision on the main drains. I will have lots of pump capacity with the Hayward Tristar 2.75 HP vsp, a large sand filter, Hayward SWG and a heat pump.
Thanks to everyone for the input. since this is my first pool I am likely overthinking things.

 

[Newdude]

heat pump.

Are you aware of the large Northeast pool with a HP drawbacks ? You'll need BTUs to extend the season and 1/3 the BTUs will struggle to do so.

Gas heaters also work for 10 to 15 degrees lower which extends the season even further.

Heat pumps are better at warming the pool while its already warm mid season. Sometimes they're the only choice, but go in knowing the limitations for less buyer remorse.

 

[wireform]

What @Newdude just said. I currently have a pool open with a heat pump and it doesn't work in the NOW temps. Customer thought they'll be in the pool this coming weekend, could of been possible with a NG heater but not with what's installed.

 

[Simm7]

Are you aware of the large Northeast pool with a HP drawbacks ? You'll need BTUs to extend the season and 1/3 the BTUs will struggle to do so.

Gas heaters also work for 10 to 15 degrees lower which extends the season even further.

Heat pumps are better at warming the pool while its already warm mid season. Sometimes they're the only choice, but go in knowing the limitations for less buyer remorse.

Yes I am aware. Mid to end of May to first week of Sept is my season. My career has been in the NG business and NG heat exchangers and they do not last. And even though NG is cheap right now my distribution costs alone are almost $7 /mcf so I wouldn’t dream of trying to heat a pool here in April or extend into Oct