Is there a non-TFP method that makes sense?

[SoCalTFP]

There are some people that don’t want daily, or close to it, pool care. There are some people that don’t want to consume the pool school and learn the chemistry, or even basics, to ensure their pool is balanced. And that’s fine.

So is there a non-TFP model that makes sense for these people?

From a pool store or product perspective all the chemicals are generic and you can’t patent (bleach, acid, etc.). So they’re forced to market magic potions which are a mixture of things you can get at the grocery store. And none of the combinations are stable enough for the average user. There aren’t any ways to extend chlorine addition without adding CYA or CH.

Pool Companies are in the same boat. The average monthly cost for weekly care is what $150-200? How could you possibly effectively treat a pool and make a profit with the TFP method at that competitive price? It’s no surprise that they cut corners, they need to make money.

So it begs the question, is there a non-TFP method that makes sense? How can you own a pool if you aren’t willing to dedicate the effort (as minimal as it is) to its care?

Curious to hear people’s thoughts, it seems like everyone who doesn’t want to follow the method we all are committed to are destined for green pools and unsanitary conditions.

 

[magiteck]

With a properly running SWG, you can probably get by with weekly testing and maintenance. That’s the best recommendation for “lazy” maintenance and why they’re so recommended here. It’s the best of both worlds - TFP principals and no need for daily care.

Aside from that, the “alternative” is what the pool services do. Use trichlor pucks to keep some residual in the water, understanding it may not always be enough or perfectly sanitary. Then “shock” with a high dose once a week to try to kill whatever has started multiplying.

And then when CYA gets too high, drain / replace some water.

Can that model “work”? Sure. But the pool won’t always be sanitary, it will cost more to maintain, you’ll likely have to deal with the occasional algae outbreak, and bank on future water replacements.

Or… do it yourself for a few minutes a day, save money, and know the water is actually sanitary all the time.

 

[SoCalTFP]

With a properly running SWG, you can probably get by with weekly testing and maintenance. That’s the best recommendation for “lazy” maintenance and why they’re so recommended here. It’s the best of both worlds - TFP principals and no need for daily care.

Aside from that, the “alternative” is what the pool services do. Use trichlor pucks to keep some residual in the water, understanding it may not always be enough or perfectly sanitary. Then “shock” with a high dose once a week to try to kill whatever has started multiplying.

And then when CYA gets too high, drain / replace some water.

Can that model “work”? Sure. But the pool won’t always be sanitary, it will cost more to maintain, you’ll likely have to deal with the occasional algae outbreak, and bank on future water replacements.

Or… do it yourself for a few minutes a day, save money, and know the water is actually sanitary all the time.

I’ve got a TFP pool and truly enjoy the few minutes I spend daily on it. I even spend time here trying to help people with their pools because mine is boring, I mean trouble free.

I’ve come to a similar conclusion that and SWG gets you close, but there are so many variables. I own one and would never recommend getting lazy with one. A failure, PH issues, CSI balancing, etc. lead to pretty frequent testing. A pool company could probably keep it in balance with weekly treatment but they’d be dancing the line of multiple issues of something varies slightly.

The pool store method is completely broken. Simply transporting water samples degrades accuracy. And they’re still stuck selling overpriced potions of grocery store products to make a profit.

So is there a way the TFP method scales to those who don’t want to commit the time/effort?

 

[Texas Splash]

The average monthly cost for weekly care is what $150-200?

For some pools, that may be a bit high. If an owner has properly balanced water and only needs to add chlorine or acid, it shouldn't be quite that high. A pump on low may use about $25 in electricity. A gallon of acid should last a few months. If using liquid chlorine, that would depend on the size of the pool since chlorine is required each day. In my pool, if I was still adding 1/2 gallon of liquid chlorine each day at today's prices, that would equate to about $75 a month. A SLAM certainly would be the exception.

I agree with Jared, an SWG is the way to go. Just pay the upfront cost and for the most part let the system take care of itself.

 

[Mdragger88]

So is there a way the TFP method scales to those who don’t want to commit the time/effort?

Not really- pools require regular care/maintenance to remain healthy & in good working order.
If someone doesn’t want to do the needed care they are likely to have to deal with the consequences sooner rather than later & usually at a larger expense (time & $) than was saved by neglecting those maintenance needs.
Same goes with cars, houses (pool is part of your house), animals, & children.

 

[ajw22]

How can you own a pool if you aren’t willing to dedicate the effort (as minimal as it is) to its care?

The more stuff you own, the more it owns you.

If you want a simple lazy life then don’t own stuff.

Rent or mooch or pay others to tend to your stuff.

 

[Kaylee34]

OK I'll bite on this one because this is me:

There are some people that don’t want daily, or close to it, pool care.

I couldn't care less about my pool. For me it's a time suck and something else I have to take care of. I take care of it, I maintain it, but I myself do not use it. I simply don't have time and I'm not a pool person. I think I went swimming twice last year. None at all this year. My neighbors love my pool. I love that they enjoy it. Don't get me wrong, I brag on my beautiful sparkling pool. 1000% of that is due to TFP and the people here.

How can you own a pool if you aren’t willing to dedicate the effort (as minimal as it is) to its care?

It came with the house. I knew nothing about pools except "they're expensive to keep up and a lot of work". I was not, and am still not, willing to dedicate a whole lot of daily effort into it. TFP made a lot of work into a very little bit of work and the expense is now negligible. I put the money and effort in up front and it's paying for itself now. Strategic decision.

On the other side of that, if you're willing to spend the money, you can get done whatever you want done. So if you don't want to do it, pay someone else. Barter, trade, whatever. My neighbor skims the surface and nets out any leaves on the bottom whenever they come over to swim. They don't have to, but it's an appreciative gesture, and that works for me. You get what you pay for and a traditional pool service, well, we all know what that gets you. Could you pay someone to do it the TPF way? Sure, you'd just have to put in the effort to find them.

Alternatively, you could shut it down, put a cover on and let it swamp. Plenty of stories here from people who bought houses where that was exactly what had been done. Unwilling or unable to care for it makes no difference, the end result is the same.

So is there a non-TFP model that makes sense for these people?

For some, a very few, I think yes, other options could work. Northern climates with a very short season could get away with pucks and weekly shocks for quite awhile. With my liner pool, extremely low use and the huge amount of rain I get, I could probably get away with it too. But that's getting away with it and not necessarily being optimal.

Of course, there's thousands of people out there that just have a pool and don't know or care about TFP clarity or sanitation. Calcium scale, iron or copper stains, they don't care. Opening day swamp and seasonal algae? Just part of having a pool. Let's not forget those that have a pool and for whatever reason, affordability is a factor. Cash up front for a SWG or metal treatments, etc. isn't an option for everyone. Then add in "it's always worked before" if it's not broke, don't fix it.

 

[Reinou]

For me 'Automation' is the key.

At first our house in France was our 2nd house that we only visited every approx. 6 to 8 weeks. Because I wanted to ‘dive in ‘ the moment we arrived, I choose a fully automated system that measures and injects chlorine an sulfuric-acid, and shows me the values and graphs online.

With a little of my own electric skills, I also managed to turn on and of the heating (consisting of a water-system that warms the water at the roof in rubber lines) and made a variation for the pump so it runs very slowly and economical when the pool is not in heating mode, and runs at higher rpm in heating mode.

This way, when we were not there, I could lower the temp and therefore the chemicals and electricity usage. Approx. 10 days before going I always turned on the heater – so that when we arrived we could directly dive into a nice warm, clean pool !!

Key for this process turned out to be a roller deck cover (also electrical, remotely open-closeable), which made the water much, much much more stable.

But: before everything was stable I needed to learn quite a bit (e.g. problems with the mountain-water hardness – now learned to just let pool refill itself with rain in the spring, create a good buffer with bicarbonate (buy 25kg bag food-grade for farmers / bakery; costs a fraction of the same stuff with the label 'ph-buffer') etc.). So even with a fully automated Trouble Free Pool – you need TFP at some moment !

 

[Newdude]

My neighbor a couple houses over pays $140 a week for his pool service. He went with the pool service when his SWG died and it was too expensive to replace it. (Seriously this is a thing. The 2 houses we looked at when moving with SWG pools were both dead and not replaced). I told my neighbor I'd install it for him and teach him everything he never knew, but he's yet to take me up on it.

Everybody else I know does exactly what the pool store tells them to. Toss a couple of tabs in a floater and over correct it once a week with shock. Unbeknownst to everyone else I know, this method makes them a slave to the pool store. Some have wised up and instead buy the exact same overpriced and/or magic potions from WalMart/Costco, based upon their own test strips.

 

[Mdragger88]

SWG died and it was too expensive to replace it. (Seriously this is a thing.

This is how I have aquired 2 different swcg systems for free.
Note - the 1st one wasn’t actually dead at all - just dirty. By dirty I mean black.
An intex unit. The pool turned rancid & they blamed the unit.
I was gifted the “dead” aquarite by the same person. New cell for it & voila!

 

[drsipe]

The TFP method requires much less time and effort than any other method that I have seen.

I have a SWG, so that takes care of the chlorine addition each day, but if I had to add chlorine,,,,,, how long does it take to dump 1/2 gallon of bleach in the pool every day.

I empty 2 strainers every day (5 minutes)

I test chlorine and PH every 2-3 days (10-15 minutes)

I empty the pump strainer 1 time per week
Run robot vacuum 1 time per week
Brush the walls 1 time per week (total weekly minus time the robot is working 30 minutes)

I test full water chemistry 1 time per month (20 minutes)

Since I use a robot for vacuuming I usually only charge my DE filter at the beginning of the season and it lasts all season, but if I had to recharge the filter 45 minutes

I rarely have to use my strainer net, and I have not hand vacuumed my pool in many many years.

It seems to me that the TFP method is less maintenance than any other methods that I have seen other than ignoring the pool.

 

[Mdragger88]

The TFP method requires much less time and effort than any other method that I have seen.

I have a SWG, so that takes care of the chlorine addition each day, but if I had to add chlorine,,,,,, how long does it take to dump 1/2 gallon of bleach in the pool every day.

I empty 2 strainers every day (5 minutes)

I test chlorine and PH every 2-3 days (10-15 minutes)

I empty the pump strainer 1 time per week
Run robot vacuum 1 time per week
Brush the walls 1 time per week (total weekly minus time the robot is working 30 minutes)

I test full water chemistry 1 time per month (20 minutes)

Since I use a robot for vacuuming I usually only charge my DE filter at the beginning of the season and it lasts all season, but if I had to recharge the filter 45 minutes

I rarely have to use my strainer net, and I have not hand vacuumed my pool in many many years.

It seems to me that the TFP method is less maintenance than any other methods that I have seen other than ignoring the pool.

I agree- with a swcg, a robot, & a quick test every few days there’s minimal effort with great reward the tfp way. I “play” with the pool alot tweaking this or that on the deck & such. I do also have to empty my bot more frequently (every couple days) because I run him everyday but those things aren’t really necessary to do I just like it to look good when I’m looking at it!

 

[wireform]

""Is there a non-TFP method that makes sense?""​

That probably would be the Facebook and or tictoc method or a combination of both along with advice from a random Leslie's.

 

[Mdragger88]

""Is there a non-TFP method that makes sense?""​

That probably would be the Facebook and or tictoc method or a combination of both along with advice from a random Leslie's.

While Those are popular methods, not sure they generally make much sense.

 

[ajw22]

While Those are popular methods, not sure they generally make much sense.

They must make sense for someone. Not us!

 

[SoCalTFP]

For me 'Automation' is the key.

At first our house in France was our 2nd house that we only visited every approx. 6 to 8 weeks. Because I wanted to ‘dive in ‘ the moment we arrived, I choose a fully automated system that measures and injects chlorine an sulfuric-acid, and shows me the values and graphs online.

With a little of my own electric skills, I also managed to turn on and of the heating (consisting of a water-system that warms the water at the roof in rubber lines) and made a variation for the pump so it runs very slowly and economical when the pool is not in heating mode, and runs at higher rpm in heating mode.

This way, when we were not there, I could lower the temp and therefore the chemicals and electricity usage. Approx. 10 days before going I always turned on the heater – so that when we arrived we could directly dive into a nice warm, clean pool !!

Key for this process turned out to be a roller deck cover (also electrical, remotely open-closeable), which made the water much, much much more stable.

But: before everything was stable I needed to learn quite a bit (e.g. problems with the mountain-water hardness – now learned to just let pool refill itself with rain in the spring, create a good buffer with bicarbonate (buy 25kg bag food-grade for farmers / bakery; costs a fraction of the same stuff with the label 'ph-buffer') etc.). So even with a fully automated Trouble Free Pool – you need TFP at some moment !

This is the direction I think might make sense for the industry long term. Automation combined with a more technical maintenance company. I hope we can get there soon so more people will have access to trouble free pools.

A simple model could be as easy as eliminating daily care and then weekly maintenance s would be more stable. Something that looks like this would get close with existing technology.

• Any form of automation with remote dosing capability.
• SWCG for chlorine
• PH controlled by Acid feeder or CO2 based on fill water TA.
• Raking and skimmer cleaning minimized with Solar Skimmer.
• Testing - this is the gap right now. If WaterGuru or one of the other smart testing were accurate enough for FC/PH this would allow for remote monitoring/dosing.

Weekly care could be minimized by:

• A robot cleaner for weekly vacuuming and brushing.
• Autofill for water additions.
• Filter PSI monitored by smart gauge (no clue if these exist) or a cheap camera.
• Pump filter cleaning minimized by robots.
• TA/CH controlled by matching CSI target to pool needs or local fill water levels.

From here the maintenance company would visit every 1-4 weeks to maintain all this equipment, drop test to confirm accuracy of remote measurements, and manage things like SALT/CYA.

The challenge here is this equipment is pretty expensive so you might have trouble competing with the cheap local services and making a healthy margin.

 

[koffey]

I'm lazy, I work out, I clean my pool typically manually, I work from home 66% of the calendar year. Right now I'm having a drink of adult form. My neighbor has a similar pool as mine abiet smaller and come early July I love looking out my window and seeing my crystal clear waters vs his green swamp. He asked me how I do it. I told him to stop buying pucks and use LC with a test kit. Outside of reagents, the initial cost of my test kit and my large bulk pool store chlorine costs, I spend less than $100 for the season. That's cheap. My alcohol costs are extremely higher. However it's an offset due to not having a commute, gas and services lol! My liver hates me. Because 'pool' stuff is costly, stores need inventory, overhead, employees, brick and mortar costs, utilities, vehicles, gas and maintenance, stores are expensive. Pool stores are super expensive. Paid $22 for 2lbs stabilizer in a pool store, same product was $17 at a chain store. Back to my beverage.

 

[magiteck]

I'm lazy, I work out, I clean my pool typically manually, I work from home 66% of the calendar year. Right now I'm having a drink of adult form. My neighbor has a similar pool as mine abiet smaller and come early July I love looking out my window and seeing my crystal clear waters vs his green swamp. He asked me how I do it. I told him to stop buying pucks and use LC with a test kit. Outside of reagents, the initial cost of my test kit and my large bulk pool store chlorine costs, I spend less than $100 for the season. That's cheap. My alcohol costs are extremely higher. However it's an offset due to not having a commute, gas and services lol! My liver hates me. Because 'pool' stuff is costly, stores need inventory, overhead, employees, brick and mortar costs, utilities, vehicles, gas and maintenance, stores are expensive. Pool stores are super expensive. Paid $22 for 2lbs stabilizer in a pool store, same product was $17 at a chain store. Back to my beverage.

My annual red cup budget is higher than my pool chemical budget.

 

[leroy]

Had in ground for 12 yrs do water check weekly not daily, has served me well as mine has stayed crystal clear andonly had algae few times over that time and mostly from kids wearing suits that had been worn in lake. Water seems to stay pretty balanced as well.

 

[Newdude]

had algae few times over that time and mostly from kids wearing suits that had been worn in lake.

If your FC was in range, any algae on the suits couldn't grow exponentially and would be killed almost instantly.

If the suits were dried between A and B, the algae would have gone in the pool already dead.