Is My IC40 SWG Dead?

[tucsontico]

I noticed this morning that my IC40 had no lights on the panel. I checked the fuse on my Intellichlor Power Center (I have the separate transformer) and it was blown. After replacing the fuse, I powered the system up and the IC40 began to do its self-test (red/green lights cycling). After the self-test appeared to be complete the IC-40 went blank (no lights on) again. I checked the fuse again and the power output of the transformer and all were good. I also have an IntellipH system which is tied to the IC40 (through the transformer) and it gives me a red light (which apparently means the SWG is off or not connected). Should I try to replace the flow switch before buying a new IC40? BTW, this IC40 is 5 years old and the plates look very good (no build-up, etc.) Thanks for your help!

 

[Dirk]

Can you get the IC to fire up enough to perform the "lifespan" test. It'll give you number of hours remaining. Or can you calculate how many hours it's been producing chlorine (not how many hours it's had power). I think you get 10000 hours out of an IC40. Either might help you determine if the thing is worth saving or not...

 

[tucsontico]

Can you get the IC to fire up enough to perform the "lifespan" test. It'll give you number of hours remaining. Or can you calculate how many hours it's been producing chlorine (not how many hours it's had power). I think you get 10000 hours out of an IC40. Either might help you determine if the thing is worth saving or not...

Unfortunately, no. I reset the power at the breaker and restarted the system but the IC40 is completely blank. The IntellipH panel shows a red light so I know power is getting to the IC40 but no lights on IC40 panel.

 

[tucsontico]

I disconnect the IC40 when the water temp gets below 65ºF so, obviously, I don't run it all year long. But taking an educated guess that I average 8 months of the year running it at 70% about 8 hours per day, I bet there's about 7,000 hours of chlorine production on the IC40 in 5 years ((8 months x 30 days x 8 hrs x .7) x 5 = 6720). Should be some life left in it!

 

[Dirk]

Can you calculate hours remaining? For example: if you've been running it for a year at 50% output for 6 hours a day... that's... 1095 hours, with about 9000 hours remaining. Maybe worth saving. But 5 years at 50% for 12 hours a day is 10950... that baby is done. (If I'm doing my math right, and have the 10000 hours right, sorry, you'll have to double-check that).

Just from what I've read here, end-of-life symptoms are generally low chlorine output. Flow switch problems are usually low temp lights and/or low flow lights, not everything dead. Completely dead and blowing fuses are probably something else (just guessing). It could be the power supply or the cell. You might need a Pentair repair guy to troubleshoot, on-sight.

Mostly I'm just bumping your thread until someone else who maybe knows what's up comes along...

 

[Dirk]

I disconnect the IC40 when the water temp gets below 65ºF so, obviously, I don't run it all year long. But taking an educated guess that I average 8 months of the year running it at 70% about 8 hours per day, I bet there's about 7,000 hours of chlorine production on the IC40 in 5 years ((8 months x 30 days x 8 hrs x .7) x 5 = 6720). Should be some life left in it!

We were writing at the same time...

Not necessarily. Water chemistry can affect the plates' lifespan. Did you have to acid-wash the plates a lot? That also degrades them. And like I said, it could be the electronics in the cell, or in the transformer. So with 30% left (best case), is that worth a repairman's visit? Or just move on?

One way to go: buy a new cell. If that solves the problem, you know your transformer is OK and the old cell is shot. If that doesn't solve the problem, then it's the transformer, and you can get a quote on troubleshooting/fixing that, vs replacing it (about three bills). Then use up the old cell and you'll already have the replacement ready to go. Downside: you'll be eating up the new cell's warranty for nothing. So use the new cell until it's warranty is up, then go back to the old one, then back to the new one. You get the gist.

I suppose there is the slim possibility that a faulty transformer blew up the cell. Which could jeopardize the new cell just by trying it out. That's where a Pentair diagnostician would come in handy. He'd know how to test for that, and he'd likely be liable if he blew up a replacement cell.

Tough call. Sorry, not much help. Just spitballin' with ya...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

There should be lights on on the cell front panel when it is powered up (even when not generating chlorine). If the front panel lights are all dead, then it could be something internal to the cell that has died. Sadly, Pentair cells are not repairable, only replaceable and, as is the case with all Pentair product, they are the industry leader in wallet-draining.

An IC-60 cell costs only a little bit more than your IC40 cell and it produces a good deal more chlorine. If you do go for a new cell, get the IC60 and you’ll see that you need to run it less.

 

[mknauss]

Check the Diagnostics - Chlorinator on the ET panel. See if you have a COM error or whatever.

 

[tucsontico]

Check the Diagnostics - Chlorinator on the ET panel. See if you have a COM error or whatever.

Thanks for the idea. I did a Chlorinator diagnostics and a full system self-test: it "passed". Unfortunately, I do not believe the test on the ET panel is valid when there is an IntellipH in the loop. My IntellipH panel controls all the functions of the IC40 not the ET panel. Gonna order a replacement flow switch and an IC-40. Try the switch first ad if that doesn't fix it, then I'll drop in a new IC-40.

 

[tucsontico]

There should be lights on on the cell front panel when it is powered up (even when not generating chlorine). If the front panel lights are all dead, then it could be something internal to the cell that has died. Sadly, Pentair cells are not repairable, only replaceable and, as is the case with all Pentair product, they are the industry leader in wallet-draining.

An IC-60 cell costs only a little bit more than your IC40 cell and it produces a good deal more chlorine. If you do go for a new cell, get the IC60 and you’ll see that you need to run it less.

Thanks for the info. The current price on Amazon for IC40 is $585 and the IC60 is $730. According to Pentair an IC40 produces 1.4 lbs of Cl per 24 hours and an IC60 produces 2.0 lbs. $145 for .6 lbs/day of Cl production seems like a good ROI. However, if the electronics--not the plates' capability to continue the electrolysis process--are the limiting factor, I'll still only get 5-7 years out of the IC60 regardless if I run it less time to produce the necessary Cl. Unless I've missed a key issue, it doesn't make sense to spend that $145 up front.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Plate surface area is what determines the amount of chlorine produced. The power supply electronics are the same for the IC-20/40/60. You should, theoretically, get a longer life out of a larger cell running it a lower duty cycle. Premature cell death due to a random failure of the internal electronics certainly would negate any savings but there’s no way to predict that before hand. $145 is no big deal to me to get the higher output and less pump runtime. Others may be more risk-averse.

 

[Dirk]

I ran these numbers a while back (I thought that was with you Matt, but maybe someone else). I got similar results. Pentair seems to have set their IC prices by the pound (of chlorine produced). So the IC60 is only very slightly a better deal, offset by the risk that the electronics must last as long as the plates to realize that small dividend.

Pump runtime, though, is definitely something to consider, in both electrical and wear and tear costs. For me those are a non-issue, because my solar heater governs pump runtime, not SWG... So IC40 is the safer bet for me. In a pool where SWG governs runtime, then the IC60 could very well be the smarter play.

Maybe by the time mine wears out, they'll have fixed that darn flow switch!

 

[tucsontico]

JoyfulNoise & Dirk, you both make good points about SWG use and life cycle. My SWG is set up to run with my in-floor cleaners. My pool sits in full sun all day here in Tucson so I keep my CYA at 70-80 ppm and my FC about 4 ppm. Over the past 4 years I've experimented with VS pump speeds, SWG run times and duty cycles. I've found that running my in-floor cleaners at 2200 rpm gives a good flow rate and keeps the pool bottom clean (once per week the robot gets the rest). I run the in-floor cleaner (and my SWG) about 6 hours/day in summer with the SWG set to 75% duty cycle which holds my FC at 4-5 ppm. The 6 hours is broken up into two 3-hour periods--one in the morning and one in the afternoon. Between these cleaning periods, I run 2 hours of low rpm (1400 rpm) filtration (a "skimmer" period) so my pump is running 8 hrs/day.

Using the above info, I could run an IC60 at a 50% duty cycle for the same 6 hour run time and produce the same amount of Cl. So, in theory, an IC60 should last me twice the normal 5-7 year life of an IC40. (If the life cycle were just based on plates be able to produce Cl.) My experience shows that the IC40 internal electronics will fail before the plates lose their ability to produce Cl. I firmly believe our triple-digit summer heat is the cause of most electronic failures. While I cannot find any published operating temperatures for the IC40, most "outdoor" rated electronics are good to 50ºC (122ºF). My pool equipment sits in the full sun and I've measured over 130ºF on some of the metal parts. Residential grade electronic stuff just won't last in that environment. Until I get proof an IC60 will definitely last longer, I'm going with the IC40.

 

[Dirk]

I think you and I both need to get some shade over our gear...

 

[tucsontico]

I think you and I both need to get some shade over our gear...

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm taking an idea for a DIY cover from this website–cobbling together some 1" Sched 40 pipe and solar shade fabric to cover most of my equipment pad but be hinged and movable for maintenance. The cover will be temporary until the tree I planted nearby gets tall enough–maybe 3-5 years!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The upside to an exposed pad though is it keeps the pack rats away. I once moved a small tool organizer (holds shovels and things) to the back of the casita near where the equipment is and, within a week, a packrat moved in. It dug out a small nest under the organizer and filled it with bedding (and poop). So just be cautious about tightly covering things up and providing shade as it’s not only your equipment that will “benefit” from it....

 

[Dirk]

The upside to an exposed pad though is it keeps the pack rats away. I once moved a small tool organizer (holds shovels and things) to the back of the casita near where the equipment is and, within a week, a packrat moved in. It dug out a small nest under the organizer and filled it with bedding (and poop). So just be cautious about tightly covering things up and providing shade as it’s not only your equipment that will “benefit” from it....

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm taking an idea for a DIY cover from this website–cobbling together some 1" Sched 40 pipe and solar shade fabric to cover most of my equipment pad but be hinged and movable for maintenance. The cover will be temporary until the tree I planted nearby gets tall enough–maybe 3-5 years!

I don't want to enclose my gear. I've got an IntellipH for one thing, probably venting acid into the air. I want max circulation. I was envisioning just what tucsontico is describing. A lightweight, hinged panel of some sort, that can fold up out of my way for pad maintenance, and drop back down easily. I also want to be able to walk by and glance at my pad to make sure all is well: pump basket, filter gauge, FlowVis, acid hopper and SWG lights. I know I'd neglect those if they were behind a door...

Just looking to get 3 or 4 hours of "high-noon" sun off the gear. Morning it's all shaded by the house. Late afternoon by trees and tall shrubs.

What is solar shade fabric? I was thinking of Sunbrella fabric. I have a 16-year-old Sunbrella umbrella that is still going strong.

 

[tucsontico]

What is solar shade fabric? I was thinking of Sunbrella fabric. I have a 16-year-old Sunbrella umbrella that is still going strong.

Solar shade fabric is really just a permeable woven cloth-like fabric for shielding vegetables and tender plants from the sun. It is available at most big box stores, i.e., Lowe's or Home Depot, in their garden section. It is good enough to provide shade but still lets light through (about a 60-80% reduction). As you noted, Sunbrella is very durable. This solar shade product is not nearly that strong but it is pretty inexpensive and you can get it in wide widths.

 

[tucsontico]

The upside to an exposed pad though is it keeps the pack rats away. I once moved a small tool organizer (holds shovels and things) to the back of the casita near where the equipment is and, within a week, a packrat moved in. It dug out a small nest under the organizer and filled it with bedding (and poop). So just be cautious about tightly covering things up and providing shade as it’s not only your equipment that will “benefit” from it....

You're correct that a total enclosure is just a pack rat haven. I've mostly solved the pack rat issue by placing a solar powered landscape light (or two) on my pool equipment pad. It shines down from above at night and illuminates the entire pad very nicely. As you know pack rats are nocturnal so they generally avoid well-lit areas. My biggest problem with pack rats right now is fishing the drowned ones out of my pool (nearly a daily event)!

My DIY enclosure plan is to have just a lean-to style cover hinged in such away to easily be moved for pool equipment maintenance. I plan on using a woven, permeable fabric that will allow some light (and the monsoon rain) through but hopefully provide enough shade to cool the equipment somewhat. I will keep you posted!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I feel like the pack rat and ground squirrels are crazy this year in Tucson!! My entire front yard has been invaded (previous years I maybe had one of two ground squirrels and/or pocket gophers around) and I’ve killed at least three pack rats in the backyard. Something about the population this year exploded out where we are (east side). It really ticked me off when one of the little you-know-whats put a hole in my turf