Interesting observation about bleach tonight

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Bama Rambler said:
As a side note; The new stuff is made with a new process that strips a lot of the salt and lye out of it. That makes the shelf life a lot longer.
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Based on the pH of the product, there does not appear to necessarily be less lye in it. More lye makes the product more stable (breakdown more slowly when in concentrated form), but increases the pH upon addition. The original product says the pH was 11.9 which implies an excess lye of only 0.03% which is well within the "< 1%" that they quoted. However, the new product says the pH is 11-13 which represents an excess lye amount of 0.004% to 0.4% though they explicitly list a range of 0.1-1%. Hopefully they are keeping the excess lye down to a reasonable amount.

Where do you get that there is a new process that removes the salt? They never list the salt explicitly and just lump that in with the water in "inert ingredients".
 
chem geek said:
[quote="Bama Rambler":28zsokek]As a side note; The new stuff is made with a new process that strips a lot of the salt and lye out of it. That makes the shelf life a lot longer.
Click to expand...
Based on the pH of the product, there does not appear to necessarily be less lye in it. More lye makes the product more stable (breakdown more slowly when in concentrated form), but increases the pH upon addition. The original product says the pH was 11.9 which implies an excess lye of only 0.03% which is well within the "< 1%" that they quoted. However, the new product says the pH is 11-13 which represents an excess lye amount of 0.004% to 0.4% though they explicitly list a range of 0.1-1%. Hopefully they are keeping the excess lye down to a reasonable amount.

Where do you get that there is a new process that removes the salt? They never list the salt explicitly and just lump that in with the water in "inert ingredients".[/quote:28zsokek]

Did anyone ever determine if there was any real change in lye or salt content?


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Measure your pH with 25 mL and drops 0871 X 0.2 = FC. Then measure the FC again. (I do this after dark). If it didn't come up to what poolmath predicts, its not as strong as advertised and may have degraded. Change pool math to read your pre bleach FC and then post bleach FC. Continue to change the % bleach until you have the % that causes the volume of bleach you added to give you that same post beach FC. Then you have your effective % bleach. You have just checked your bleach concentration. My 12% bleach had degraded to 6.45%. Once I started putting 6.45% into PoolMath, now I get the rise in FC that I am expecting. All this assumes that your pool volume is correct.

I'm also buying lower concentrations of bleach. It's more stable and maintains its potency longer.




View attachment Bleach stability.pdf
 
Steve_in_C said:
Measure your pH with 25 mL and drops 0871 X 0.2 = FC. Then measure the FC again. (I do this after dark). If it didn't come up to what poolmath predicts, its not as strong as advertised and may have degraded. Change pool math to read your pre bleach FC and then post bleach FC. Continue to change the % bleach until you have the % that causes the volume of bleach you added to give you that same post beach FC. Then you have your effective % bleach. You have just checked your bleach concentration. My 12% bleach had degraded to 6.45%. Once I started putting 6.45% into PoolMath, now I get the rise in FC that I am expecting. All this assumes that your pool volume is correct.

I'm also buying lower concentrations of bleach. It's more stable and maintains its potency longer.




View attachment 68683
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You realize this thread is 3.5 years old, right? Generally speaking, its not advised to reply to really old threads like this.
 
I thought it was interesting reading back down memory lane.

I'll note that I'm just treating a 320 gallon spa, not a pool, but I buy surefine (generic) brand bleach, advertised at 5.25 strength.

Mind ya, I get it a gallon at a time. The 3.78 QUART thing sticks in my craw. Like, who got paid good money to come up with a smaller bottle yeah? I'm drunk, but I aint THAT drunk if you know what I mean.

Anyway, so I had a question I think.

In this post: Certified Pool Operator (CPO) training -- What is not taught
I'll quote:
For every 10 ppm FC added by ANY source of chlorine, there will be 8.2 ppm salt from when the chlorine gets used/consumed and converts to chloride. For bleach, chlorinating liquid, and lithium hypochlorite, there is an additional 8.2 ppm salt added upon addition so the net result is 16.5 ppm salt from these sources and the TA rises by 0.1-0.6 ppm depending on the amount of "excess lye" in the product.
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So, my question is; Do they put the same amount of caustic in a gallon of bleach, regardless of how strong it is? so a gallon of %5.25 generic bleach has the same amount of lye as a gallon of 12% stuff to keep it at its proper (12+) PH?

I suppose it probably verys by who is making it, but, from a chemistry point of view, is it in their best interest to add the same amount of lye per volume of water regardless of how much of the chlorine gas they add to it? Or do they add more lye in proportion to the chlorine strength in the bottle?
 
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