Intematic Digital Timer and Relay Frustration

First, as a preliminary comment, I am impressed with the level of sophistication of some of the posters here. You guys really know your stuff.

To answer your questions:

1) No, the timer and pump are on different circuits. I purchased a variable speed pump (the Pentair) that is wired directly to the 220 V power without any timer between. The pump itself has its own timer. Thus, I no longer need the 1353ME timer to run the pump. However, I do need the timer to control an actuator. Both items are connected to two different 220 V breakers.

I think it well help if I explain my setup and what I am trying to achieve. You see, I have two inputs into the pump, coming from the skimmer and a pool cleaner, controlled by a three way valve. To save money, I want to run the pool cleaner for about an hour a day at 25 gal/min, then turn the valve with the actuator and run the pump at lower output to take advantage of the cost savings. To do this, I will have to synchronize the 1353 timer to turn the actuator and the Pentair pump to change the pump output/ speed.

2) FYI the timer did turn on my old pump correctly. When I test it now, it will open and close the circuit as it should. This aspect of the timer works just fine. But the story does not end here !!!

3) However, the timer will NOT turn off the P4243ME. In fact, when you test terminals 3 and 4 with a voltmeter, turning Circuit 1 on and off, there is never any interuption of the power, stays at 220V. Same for circuit 2 (terminals 5 and 6) and circuit 3 (terminals 7 and 8), as the same thing occurs.

3) I have the jumpers on the P4243 in the right position.


Confusing as heck, isn't it? However, I think (and hope) I have worked this out. I have an older version of the P1353 timer that apparently can't control this type of valve/pump switch. Remember, the power input to the transformer of the 4243ME and also the timer are derived from the same circuit. However, if the timer was working properly, it should be able to "segregate" the power input to the 4243 transformaer from the black/white switching wires of the 4243ME that are connected to the same input from the breaker (i.e. the two limbs of the 220 V input from the breaker are connected to terminals 1 and 2, the red wire from the 4243 transformer and a black/white switching wire are connected to terminal 1, there is a jumper from termional 2 to terminal 3, and the other black/white wire is connected to terminal 4).

Apparently this older model can't do this. (I'm sure there is a more articulate way to explain this, but best I can do). You statement "There is nothing wrong with P1353ME if it opens and closes circuits." is actually not correct here.

Sorry for this difficult explanation but I am not an electrician. Intermatics is sending me a new P1353 that should remedy this problem. I had hoped that maybe someone on the forum had experienced this problem to save me a lot of time and hassle that it took to elucidate the above.

When I get the new 1353 timer and set it up, I'll post my results !!!
 
I think that you have a wiring problem. The ONLY thing the timer can do is open and close its contacts. If it is doing that, it IS working correctly.

3) However, the timer will NOT turn off the P4243ME. In fact, when you test terminals 3 and 4 with a voltmeter, turning Circuit 1 on and off, there is never any interuption of the power, stays at 220V. Same for circuit 2 (terminals 5 and 6) and circuit 3 (terminals 7 and 8), as the same thing occurs.

IF Terminals 1 and 2 of P1353ME are wired to either side of a double pole breaker(240V), AND there are NO other wires connected (make sure that there are not any jumper connectors), there should be NO voltage on ANY of the other P1353ME terminals!!! A voltmeter should show -
1.) 220-240v between terminals 1 and 2
2.) 120v from either 1 or 2 to ground
3.) 0V from 1 or 2 to any other terminal (3,4,5,6,7 & 8)
4.) 0V from any other terminal (3,4,5,6,7,8) to anything!
An Ohm meter should show infinity and 0 (open/close) between terminals 3-4, 5-6 and 7-8 as the circuits 1, 2 and 3 are cycled ON-OFF.
If the above is not true, then there is something shorted somewhere!

If I were you, I would start by taking the timer out of the loop and replace it with a single-pole light switch., ie. wire the black transformer wire, and one of the black/whites directly to one pole of a double pole breaker. Wire the other black/white to one side of the light switch, and the other side of the light switch and the red wire to the other pole of the breaker. When you flip the light switch, the valve should actuate. If it does not, then the P4243ME is not working correctly. If it does then you have to verify your wiring, as the P1353ME has only SPST contacts, it can only interrupt one leg of the circuit it is attached to (just like the light switch.)
Good Luck, and Best Wishes!
 
I completely understand your logic here. With your steps 1 to 4, I get the readings from the voltmeter that you quote below. There is no problem here.

The light switch method works fine, turns on/off the valve/pump switch properly. However, the circuitry of the timer cannot do this.

I have been through everything you suggest with the Intermatics technical support people and engineers. They are actually pretty helpful. Theri conclusion is that the P1353ME timer is not working properly for this type of application.

I'll post my findings when I get a replacement P1353. Thank you.
 
I've been follwoing this thread from the beginning and too thought "it's got to be a wiring problem" but it's looking more like a relay problem. I'd really like to get my hands on that unit and see what's going on with it. It is interesting to say the least.
 
Does this unit have a solid-state output, or a real, discreet mechanical relay for the output?
I have seen problems with solid state devices when there is not enough load or too much load on it for it to switch properly. Weird things can happen with inductive loads, and if you have the motor windings (with considerable counter-EMF generated while running) and the valve solenoid winding as well, the results could be unpredictable.
You may be able to use a relay as a 'buffer' between the controller and the valve/pump and have it work. In other words, have the controller switch a relay, and use the relay to switch the pump and the valve. That also can give you the added benefit of separating the pump and valve contacts as well, if you get a double-pole relay.
 
Hallelujah !!!!! Problem solved !!!

Turns out that I have an older P1353 ME that for some reason does not work properly with the P4243ME. The tech support guy at Intermatics said something about the "capacitor" in older models of this timer does not allow it to function with the valve/pump relay. I got a brand new one that works fine. I now can use the timer to turn the actuator and control pump inflow between the skimmer and the pool cleaner.

I hope that if someone has the same problem, they find this thread and can avoid all of the time and hassle that I had to endure. What a bear.

Thanks to all of you that replied.
 
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