IntelliFlo VSF System Curve Generator.

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J

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
44,922
Pentair could create a system curve generator for their IntelliFlo VSF paired with IntelliCenter.

The pump could run a program where the pump runs at several different speeds and records the flow and head loss.

Then, with enough data points, a system curve is generated on the IntelliCenter web page.

The System curve can be displayed as a graph where you could input the pump speed and the pump performance curve would be graphed on the same graph as the system curve so that you could see the operating point.

You could input a desired flow and it would tell you the speed required, how much power would be used and the system pressure.

You could input a pump speed and it would show the flow rate, system pressure and power usage expected.

The system could be used to generate a system curve for different configurations such as solar on or solar off.
 
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It will come with a digital virtual human assistant like one of these:

digitalhumans.com

UneeQ Digital Humans

UneeQ AI Digital Humans Technology enables businesses to design, develop and deploy AI-powered digital humans to improve the experiences of customers, staff or patients.
digitalhumans.com digitalhumans.com

All you have to do is tell the assistant what you want the system to do and it will do it. No programming of the system.

No setting up circuits or any of that nonsense.
 
Each pump is designed for a specific application depending on the range of operating points that it will need to meet.

For example, a booster pump might use 1,500 watts to deliver 12 gpm at 50 psi, whereas a water feature pump might use 1,500 watts to deliver 140 gpm at 12 psi.

The design is significantly different and the pumps are not interchangeable.

Every pump has a performance curve for each speed. Every curve has an optimum efficiency range where the pump works best.

The IntelliFlo is basically the same pump as a WhisperFlo with a variable speed motor.

The WhisperFlo was designed to meet the high resistance that was common in pools in the 1970s.

Modern pools are designed to reduce resistance, which means that the WhisperFlo/IntelliFlo design is not ideal for most pools built today.

You basically trade off the ability to generate pressure vs. the ability to generate flow.

An IntelliFlo that uses the same motor but with a bigger impeller and a top speed of 2,500 rpm will be able to be run slower for most applications, which reduces noise and it would likely be more efficient.

The new design would be beneficial for water feature applications that are low head loss because the pump could generate more total flow.
 
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Teald024 said:
You can make your pool happy with the right chemicals no matter what size (flow) you have.
Click to expand...
Pools need specific flow rates for specific applications.

For skimming, you adjust the flow until the skimming action is adequate, which is different for each pool and depends on things like number of skimmers etc.

SWGs need to be able to close a flow switch.

Gas and solar heaters require a specific amount of flow.

The IntelliFlo is being used on water features to give the homeowner the ability to adjust the flow to what they like.

They can still make the original Intelliflo for applications that need to be able to generate higher pressure, but I suspect that more than half of all applications would be better served by a bigger impeller and a slower top speed design.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
When do you plan to code that?

Maybe @MyAZPool can help ....
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Matt,
Whoa.. I'm no coder. I'm not nearly smart enough to try that. I merely take the hard work of other's coding talents and apply them to my own situation. In other words, "riding on the coat-tails" of the one's with all of the talent. :p
r..
 
@JoyfulNoise
Along these lines however and based on your comment, I did do some tweaking to my Grafana graphs which now kind of show the relationships between pump flow, speed, wattage and filter pressure. Based on my plumbing, filter etc.
Not sure any of this means a hill of beans but kind of fun to play around with and see the relationships between those four, all the same.
r.
2021-01-27_10-15-58.jpg
 
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Pentair is a corporation that does more than just make pool equipment. I wonder how much of their pool equipment business contributes to their overall revenue. Most companies, for reasons of profit and risk, will optimize one particular product design, like a pump, and then try to implement it across many different product portfolios and lines of business to reduce redundancy and increase profitability. Since Pentair sells into a lot of different water processing applications and markets, I wonder if their design is constrained because of the needs of other business lines.

Perhaps their CEO could come on to TFP and give us a talk ....
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Pentair is a corporation that does more than just make pool equipment. I wonder how much of their pool equipment business contributes to their overall revenue.
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I found their annual report:

Page 75 lists their sales by their segments:
#1 is Filtration systems at over $1 billion in sales
#2 is Aquatic systems (includes residential and commercial pools) was $983 million for 2019
#3 is Flow technologies at $903 million

So... at most they get about 1/3 of their revenue from pool stuff, which residential pool equipment makes up a portion of that.
 
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Wow! Nearly a billion in global pool equipment sales annually....now I know why they laugh at me when I threaten to take my business to Hayward 😂😂😂
 
JamesW said:
The pump could run a program where the pump runs at several different speeds and records the flow and head loss.

Then, with enough data points, a system curve is generated on the IntelliCenter web page.

The System curve can be displayed as a graph where you could input the pump speed and the pump performance curve would be graphed on the same graph as the system curve so that you could see the operating point.
Click to expand...

James, I’ve been planning to do a similar characterization of my system for quite a while but have gotten sidetracked by COVID, and other “supporting projects” that will help “automate” the characterization: (1) pump instantaneous power measurements and (2) accurate valve positioning to automatically adjust/test/record different system head configurations. Amongst other goals is to find the sweetest points to balance/operate my In-Floor-Cleaning-System and skimming requirements.

JamesW said:
I’m working on a universal automation system that will run any Jandy, Pentair or Hayward equipment.
Click to expand...

Nice! Any more details on this or is it “under wraps” for possible commercialization?
 
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