Intellicenter feature controlled autofill with sprinkler valve

[Ahultin]

I had previously posted about my intellicenter controlled autofill modification but had an issue so decided to revisit it. Initially I had pulled 24v from from a valve header on the intellicenter which I ran to a free relay then on to the solenoid. This worked fine for about six months at which point it stopped working. I discovered the solenoid on the sprinkler valve had burnt out (either burnt out and shorted or shorted and burnt out) Not wanting to risk the spendy intellicenter boards I opted to reconfigure the whole circuit.
I ordered the following components:
24v transformer

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Class-2-Transformer-120V-AC-4VZE4?searchQuery=4vze4&searchBar=true&tier=Not+Applicable

5a panel mount circuit breaker

https://www.grainger.com/product/CARLING-TECHNOLOGIES-Panel-Mount-Circuit-Breaker-4VA66

I drilled and tapped the enclosure below the 7th relay for the transformer which fit nicely

Added the low voltage circuit breaker into the extra spot on the intellicenter

Wired the lv thru to the CB and then connected with some spare Delphi connectors I had because I'm "extra" lol


And like that it's done and working, no longer thru the intellicenter board.
Doing this allows me to control the time that the autofill runs which enables tracking water usage with my flume 2 monitor. The autofill is scheduled to run several days a week in the middle of the night when no other items should be using water.



As a finishing touch , labeled the lv circuit breaker

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Very nice modification! I like it!

--Jeff

 

[Jimrahbe]

@Ahultin

Just wanted to say you win..

After seeing your neat looking wiring job, I will never be able to post any pictures of my wiring in the future.

I also use a transformer and relay to control my fill line, but my electrons have to find their way through an ugly mass of wiring to get the job done.

Thanks for making me feel bad.

Looks great!!

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

Shoot, I knew there was a reason to get around to a write up I haven't done yet. I think you could have used some of it. I like your solution, with one caveat, the valve.

I have a need to control when my fill happens, so I undertook a similar mod. I debated using a separate transformer, but decided to try and tap an existing power source instead. (I have an EasyTouch.) I didn't need DC, so I had three choices coming off of the ET's system transformer. After going through the choices with @ogdento, we decided the 29V tap would be best. I traced that set of wires and made my splice after the ET's 29V circuit breaker, so it would be protected as yours is. This tap is mostly independent of the ET's motherboard (I had the same concern as you), it's used only for actuator valves. I spliced off the transformer wires, and didn't mess with the board.

I used an ET relay, just as you did, but this is the part you might be interested in. I knew ahead of time I didn't want to use a solenoid valve, for the very reason you ran into. I didn't want that valve solenoid engaged like that, every day, for hours at a time. So I sniffed around the 'net and found the perfect solution. I've had it online now for many months, and so far so good:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099PKTTHF

This valve has all the qualities I needed, and I think you need, too. It's got some amazing specs. It'll run on AC or DC, anywhere between 9-36V. It's current draw is minuscule (like 70MA or so at 29V) but the best part is, it only draws that current as the valve moves, not the whole time! The rest of the time is sits idle. It's very similar to a pool valve actuator in that way. It comes in normally open, or normally closed models. I chose normally open. So...

My need is to have my fill off for about 5 hours a day. As I use my house's soft water for topping off my pool, I don't want my pool filling while my water softener is regenerating, because that would send hard water to my pool. So I bracket around the hours that might happen each night, and turn my fill water supply OFF, during those hours. Since I want the fill supply on the rest of the day, the majority of hours, I chose a normally open valve.

When my ET relay closes, it sends 29VAC to my fill valve, which operates for about 10 seconds, closing the fill supply. The voltage stays applied for the next five hours, but the valve isn't drawing any current (other than what some tiny circuit uses, I assume, that is monitoring the voltage). Then, and this is where the "magic" kicks in, when the ET relay opens and voltage is cut off, the valve, which must be storing some amount of potential energy internally somehow, perhaps a capacitor or some such circuit, closes! Without any live voltage or current from the ET! The other advantage to this is that should something go amiss with the power supply or the ET or PG&E, whatever, the valve will open and allow fill water to the pool, which is what I would want it to do if I was away for a few days or weeks in the middle of summer and something went wrong. I'd rather get a little hard water in my pool then have the pool evaporate below the skimmer mouth.

So, I know you've got everything done, but if you're worried about a repeat performance by your solenoid valve, or it burns up again, or you just don't want it sucking juice for hours a day, this cool little valve might be for you. It's only about 40 bucks.

The valve appears to be of very good quality. The fitting is brass, which I really like. And it even has little status LEDs for Open, Closed and Stuck. The "Open" LED doesn't shine indefinitely, because there's no battery and there's no voltage applied, but it shines for a little while after I shut off the 29V, to confirm it did its thing. The "Closed" LED shines the entire time the 29V is applied. It only has two wires. I used direct burial ethernet cable, because I had some handy from another project, and it's plenty of gauge for the little current this thing draws, but just about any underground wire will do.

I'll eventually get around to my write up about my project, but I thought you might appreciate this preview.

 

[Dirk]

Oops, forgot to mention. I have an auto-leveler valve downstream of this thing, so our use cases are slightly different. When my valves opens, water isn't running to the pool non-stop, it's just feeding the auto-fill valve at my pool. So you'd probably want the normally closed model. But for those that have an auto-filler, this valve is the ticket. You're not supposed to feed an auto-fill valve with a typical sprinkler anti-siphon valve, because their built-in anti-siphon mechanism isn't rated for full-time pressure like that. This valve has no such issues (it's a ball valve). And this would work in your scenario, too, because, if I recall, you've got your backflow prevention handled correctly, by a separate valve properly rated for that purpose.

 

[Ahultin]

Shoot, I knew there was a reason to get around to a write up I haven't done yet. I think you could have used some of it. I like your solution, with one caveat, the valve.

I have a need to control when my fill happens, so I undertook a similar mod. I debated using a separate transformer, but decided to try and tap an existing power source instead. (I have an EasyTouch.) I didn't need DC, so I had three choices coming off of the ET's system transformer. After going through the choices with @ogdento, we decided the 29V tap would be best. I traced that set of wires and made my splice after the ET's 29V circuit breaker, so it would be protected as yours is. This tap is mostly independent of the ET's motherboard (I had the same concern as you), it's used only for actuator valves. I spliced off the transformer wires, and didn't mess with the board.

I used an ET relay, just as you did, but this is the part you might be interested in. I knew ahead of time I didn't want to use a solenoid valve, for the very reason you ran into. I didn't want that valve solenoid engaged like that, every day, for hours at a time. So I sniffed around the 'net and found the perfect solution. I've had it online now for many months, and so far so good:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099PKTTHF

This valve has all the qualities I needed, and I think you need, too. It's got some amazing specs. It'll run on AC or DC, anywhere between 9-36V. It's current draw is minuscule (like 70MA or so at 29V) but the best part is, it only draws that current as the valve moves, not the whole time! The rest of the time is sits idle. It's very similar to a pool valve actuator in that way. It comes in normally open, or normally closed models. I chose normally open. So...

My need is to have my fill off for about 5 hours a day. As I use my house's soft water for topping off my pool, I don't want my pool filling while my water softener is regenerating, because that would send hard water to my pool. So I bracket around the hours that might happen each night, and turn my fill water supply OFF, during those hours. Since I want the fill supply on the rest of the day, the majority of hours, I chose a normally open valve.

When my ET relay closes, it sends 29VAC to my fill valve, which operates for about 10 seconds, closing the fill supply. The voltage stays applied for the next five hours, but the valve isn't drawing any current (other than what some tiny circuit uses, I assume, that is monitoring the voltage). Then, and this is where the "magic" kicks in, when the ET relay opens and voltage is cut off, the valve, which must be storing some amount of potential energy internally somehow, perhaps a capacitor or some such circuit, closes! Without any live voltage or current from the ET! The other advantage to this is that should something go amiss with the power supply or the ET or PG&E, whatever, the valve will open and allow fill water to the pool, which is what I would want it to do if I was away for a few days or weeks in the middle of summer and something went wrong. I'd rather get a little hard water in my pool then have the pool evaporate below the skimmer mouth.

So, I know you've got everything done, but if you're worried about a repeat performance by your solenoid valve, or it burns up again, or you just don't want it sucking juice for hours a day, this cool little valve might be for you. It's only about 40 bucks.

The valve appears to be of very good quality. The fitting is brass, which I really like. And it even has little status LEDs for Open, Closed and Stuck. The "Open" LED doesn't shine indefinitely, because there's no battery and there's no voltage applied, but it shines for a little while after I shut off the 29V, to confirm it did its thing. The "Closed" LED shines the entire time the 29V is applied. It only has two wires. I used direct burial ethernet cable, because I had some handy from another project, and it's plenty of gauge for the little current this thing draws, but just about any underground wire will do.
View attachment 473591
I'll eventually get around to my write up about my project, but I thought you might appreciate this preview.

I definitely like that option. I put it in my Amazon cart so If/when the solenoid goes ill go this way. My valve is installed with unions on both sides as this is theoretically out forever home so i know it will need to be replaced, likely by me, in the future. I thought about snagging power off of the valve cb from the system transformer but since I still have ~2.5yrs of pentair warranty left, and there was room, I figured i would throw a $13 transformer in there and call it good.
Since I have the flume 2 monitoring usage I have this scheduled to open for 2hrs a day several days a week. The 2hr limit keeps the flume from sending a leak alert as I have it set to 2.5hrs due to some of my drip zones.

 

[Ahultin]

Oops, forgot to mention. I have an auto-leveler valve downstream of this thing, so our use cases are slightly different. When my valves opens, water isn't running to the pool non-stop, it's just feeding the auto-fill valve at my pool. So you'd probably want the normally closed model. But for those that have an auto-filler, this valve is the ticket. You're not supposed to feed an auto-fill valve with a typical sprinkler anti-siphon valve, because their built-in anti-siphon mechanism isn't rated for full-time pressure like that. This valve has no such issues (it's a ball valve). And this would work in your scenario, too, because, if I recall, you've got your backflow prevention handled correctly, by a separate valve properly rated for that purpose.

Mine is the same, I have the float type auto leveler at the pool after this valve . And yes I have a full rpz backflow and a pressure regulator just prior to the sprinkler valve .

 

[Ahultin]

@Ahultin

Just wanted to say you win..

After seeing your neat looking wiring job, I will never be able to post any pictures of my wiring in the future.

I also use a transformer and relay to control my fill line, but my electrons have to find their way through an ugly mass of wiring to get the job done.

Thanks for making me feel bad.

Looks great!!

Jim R.

If it makes you feel any better my daughter swears I am undiagnosed on the spectrum - my projects look like this, my workspace looks like a tornado ripped thru then an earthquake stirred the debris up a bit for good measure
In my defense I typically know right where everything is , well except the 10mm sockets, those ******** are elusive!

 

[Toxophilite]

This worked fine for about six months at which point it stopped working. I discovered the solenoid on the sprinkler valve had burnt out (either burnt out and shorted or shorted and burnt out)

Are you sure the solenoid is not a 9V variety?

 

[Dirk]

Mine is the same, I have the float type auto leveler at the pool after this valve . And yes I have a full rpz backflow and a pressure regulator just prior to the sprinkler valve .

Coolio. Must have been another here that doesn't have autofill and uses a timer and valve to top off his pool. Maybe that was @Jimrahbe.

I put it in my Amazon cart so If/when the solenoid goes ill go this way.

My valve is installed with unions

Smart.

If it makes you feel any better my daughter swears I am undiagnosed on the spectrum - my projects look like this, my workspace looks like a tornado ripped thru then an earthquake stirred the debris up a bit for good measure

Brother from another mother...

 

[mknauss]

I have a similar valve on my autofill system. It is 110V. Works great.

 

[pjt]

And like that it's done and working

Wow! Looking at your wiring is calming and satisfying.

Did you consider operating your valve(s) with an irrigation controller? I have mine connected to a Rachio, and it works well.

 

[Ahultin]

Wow! Looking at your wiring is calming and satisfying.

Did you consider operating your valve(s) with an irrigation controller? I have mine connected to a Rachio, and it works well.

I did, as we use rachio to run our irrigation lines. this presented 2 issues:
1. Since it was an afterthought it would have required very strategic diagonal boring under a ~3ft walkway over top of all of the pool plumbing, water main and propane line to get the control wire to the nearest irrigation valve box.
2. when i ran the irrigation i opted to use a master valve system as well as an everydrop wired flow monitor. the master valve would have been activated everytime we ran the pool autofill and the rachio would have whined and complained about no flow.

 

[Dirk]

While there's a logic to controlling the flow of water to a pool with a system that controls the flow of water elsewhere in the yard, it makes more sense to me to control filling the pool with the pool controller. Nothing wrong with either, just the way my brain works. Plus, I shut down irrigation during the winter months, which I wouldn't want to do with my pool's auto fill.

And while I easily keep the plumbing separate, I water my yard with an automated fertilizing injection system and hard water, and I fill my pool with filtered, softened water. "Feels" better to keep the control of each system separate.

 

[Ahultin]

Are you sure the solenoid is not a 9V variety?

No, the burnt out solenoid was definitely 24vac

 

[Ahultin]

Wow! Looking at your wiring is calming and satisfying.

Did you consider operating your valve(s) with an irrigation controller? I have mine connected to a Rachio, and it works well.

Additionally, I specced the i10ps In order to have upgrade headroom. With this we still have two spare relays (and technically 3 as one is currently wired for a future robot but I'm hoping the new aiper seagull pro cordless negates the need for that)