In-Floor Cleaning System pipe cracked/broken - Experts advice needed where do I go from here?

[rozus]

I was winterizing my in-floor cleaning system, I pushed the air from the return that goes through its housings towards the pop-ups on the pool floors.

I removed the pop-ups that are on stairs to plug them. There was debris, two rocks and a broken pipe came out from one of them which I identified see it in the attached.

Obviously, this line is broken, and I am really not sure where to go from here I am not able to get it digged up and fixed, so that is not an option.

Some of the things I can think of:
1) Eliminate that line/pop-ups only from the in-floor cleaning system by plugging it.
2) Eliminate the entire cleaning system from the valve by closing the valve.

Please I appreciate anyone contributing to this thread, and helping me figure out the best way forward.

Thank you all!!!!

 

[Bperry]

I was winterizing my in-floor cleaning system, I pushed the air from the return that goes through its housings towards the pop-ups on the pool floors.

I removed the pop-ups that are on stairs to plug them. There was debris, two rocks and a broken pipe came out from one of them which I identified see it in the attached.

Obviously, this line is broken, and I am really not sure where to go from here I am not able to get it digged up and fixed, so that is not an option.

Some of the things I can think of:
1) Eliminate that line/pop-ups only from the in-floor cleaning system by plugging it.
2) Eliminate the entire cleaning system from the valve by closing the valve.

Please I appreciate anyone contributing to this thread, and helping me figure out the best way forward.

Thank you all!!!!

Any clues where the break might have happened? Any chance some debris just got put into the system and it’s not actually a broken pipe?

 

[rozus]

@Bperry No clue whatsoever I wouldn’t be able to see the debris, broken piece of pipe and rocks come out if I didn’t remove the pop-up head from the ladder and push air into it, then I saw these things coming out.

Debris might have been put in when maybe there were building the pool, that can be the only way because I haven’t put any debris, I can’t think of.

If we think that debris might be put into the system somehow, then why also got a broken piece of pipe? I have no proof other than this piece to prove that the pipe/system is broken. I wish I am wrong but this broken piece doesn’t make sense unless it is really broken.

 

[Bperry]

@Bperry No clue whatsoever I wouldn’t be able to see the debris, broken piece of pipe and rocks come out if I didn’t remove the pop-up head from the ladder and push air into it, then I saw these things coming out.

Debris might have been put in when maybe there were building the pool, that can be the only way because I haven’t put any debris, I can’t think of.

If we think that debris might be put into the system somehow, then why also got a broken piece of pipe? I have no proof other than this piece to prove that the pipe/system is broken. I wish I am wrong but this broken piece doesn’t make sense unless it is really broken.

Just trying to help rule out something getting sucked into the system when it was first installed and pushed through to a pop up. There are leak detection services that can “hear” water leaking with special equipment. That might be something to consider. That size of a hole should be pushing out quite a bit of water when it’s running so I’d look for evidence of wet spots in the yard to see if any “pop up”. (Sorry for the pun…)

 

[ajw22]

I would open the pool and stair pop-up as normal next season and then keep an eye on it.

Watch for losing an abnormal amount of water through a leak and maybe every few weeks remove the pop up and check for any new debris.

How old is the pool?

When did you last remove the pop up and examine that pipe?

 

[rozus]

@Bperry in-floor pop-up hole on the pool surface is not a big hole, so not sure I understand when you say check the yard? You mean check for any water leaks coming out of pool deck?

@ajw22 will do. Can you think of any reasons why broken piece of pipe other than it might be broken? Pool is 2 years old, i am the second owner, no access or warranty from the builder. This was the first time I removed the popup head to winterize it, and i saw this coming out.

 

[Bperry]

@Bperry in-floor pop-up hole on the pool surface is not a big hole, so not sure I understand when you say check the yard? You mean check for any water leaks coming out of pool deck?

Yes, check the yard for wet spots indicating a water leak. A hole big enough to match that piece of PCV will leak a lot of water since the return pipe is under pressure.

 

[Bperry]

Yes, check the yard for wet spots indicating a water leak. A hole big enough to match that piece of PCV will leak a lot of water since the return pipe is under pressure.

Also, any way to compare the broken pipe diameter to a good piece of pipe? It may be hard to tell from the picture but it looks like a very large diameter but I have a feeling the picture just doesn’t have anything else to put it into scale visually.

But if the diameter doesn’t match anything you have in the ground it may point to some other problem or just debris from installation.

 

[rozus]

@Bperry I will go to Home Depot, and see if I can find a match to see diameter. How will I know the diameter if the pipes in the ground? There was couple of paperwork builder gave me what they had, I can check what I have. But any other way to determine what is underneath?

 

[cwswifty]

I'm not very familiar with the in-floor cleaning systems but I'm wondering: Can you easily tell (visually) when they're working properly and when there's a problem? Have you observed it working properly since you've owned the pool?

The possibility of it being leftover debris from construction is not a stretch at all. I was adjusting the returns of my recently built pool and when I stuck my finger in one of them I felt something. Unscrewed to nozzle and out came a rock that was small enough to travel through the pipe but too big to pass through the jet.

 

[ajw22]

This looks like two things glued together. What does this feel and look like?

If it was a broken pipe you would expect the inner wall to be a smooth surface.



This looks thicker then Schedule 40 pipe. 2 inch schedule 40 would be 0.15 inches thick.



This looks like 2 pieces glued together. What does the blue surface look and feel like?

 

[ajw22]

@ajw22 will do. Can you think of any reasons why broken piece of pipe other than it might be broken? Pool is 2 years old, i am the second owner, no access or warranty from the builder. This was the first time I removed the popup head to winterize it, and i saw this coming out.

Sounds to me like you may have been the first to open up that pop-up since it was built.

If a pipe had a hole big enough for those objects I would expect you to find a lot of dirt in the pipe.

My guess is it is construction debris that got into the pipe.

 

[rozus]

@cwswifty Only thing I observed owning the pool first year was the gears in second housing in the pic was turning slower than the first housing, I never knew why but I thought it was due to pressure loss towards the end of the pool popups…
I didn’t observe any leaks whatsoever, I did bucket test multiple times but found out it was due to typical evaporation from high low temp.

@ajw22 @Bperry I came to HD, please see pics, outer pipe is 2inch, inner 1.5inch. Both seems to be glued with a typical blue plumbing cement/glue. When I touch it the outer, it feels it stripped vs broken. But inner looks broken without stripping.

Yes, I was the first only person opened the popups and push air into them. Since you guys think that water loss would be huge, I didn’t experience any leak during pool season…
Wht are the chances it might have been broken during winterization when I pushed air into them with cyclone air.. I know it is just the amount of air vs pressure from this machine, but I wanted to see your thoughts chances of smt broken during winterization process? All I did was push air from the valve in the pic attached after I took out the gears from the system housings…

 

[ajw22]

Wht are the chances it might have been broken during winterization when I pushed air into them with cyclone air.. I know it is just the amount of air vs pressure from this machine, but I wanted to see your thoughts chances of smt broken during winterization process? All I did was push air from the valve in the pic attached after I took out the gears from the system housings…

Schedule 40 PVC can withstand over 800 psi. I doubt you pressurized the system that high to burst a pipe.

If a pipe would crack it will split open and not break into a piece like that. It would take an explosion from inside the pipe to create a piece like you found.

Any pressure from inside the pipe would send the pieces outward, not down into the pipe.

I cannot imagine what would break a pipe apart and have it travel down the pipe. The hole would be so big that you would lose water at the hole and the pop-up would not work.

 

[Elheffy22]

multiple bucket tests and pool isn't leaking water..... from your pictures it was something from construction process, debris looks like a fitting with pipe glued to it more than likely a leaking fitting during pressure check and was cut out and replaced and that part of pipe fell down the pipe. Nothing to be concerned about, its impressive what is found in pipes from construction practices

 

[Nonyabiz]

I have had the EXACT same thing happen to me on my 1 year old pool. Being that you are likely the first person to ever remove the heads I can guarantee that debris is from a lazy, rushed plumber. I have now found 4 different pieces of broken pipe similar to your photo. 2 of them got trapped in the diverters, 2 of them came out of the pipes which house the pop-ups when the pop-up were removed. One of the pipes had a piece of styrofoam the size small fist come flying out when i removed the pop-up. Next year you should defintely take off every pop-up, 1 at a time and clear all the debri thats in the system as I would bet my life savings there is more in there. Also, keep a close eye on your diverter, one of the pieces of pipe damaged some cogs and I had to replace them. Hope this helps! If you had a break large enough to allow those 2 rocks and that piece of PVC you would have dirt and all types of debris coming up as well.