I had a strange issue with my IC40 over the weekend. My wife turned on the heater on Friday to warm the pool up and I started getting flow errors from the cell. By the time I got home to play with it, the water was warmed up, so the heater was off and the errors were gone. The next day, the temps were in the 90s, so no heater, but I got the errors again. I played with the RPMs of the pump as well as pulled the cell and checked the internals and still got the the errors. Our equipment pad is in the sun most of the day, but I noticed that once the sun got off of it later the in the day, the errors went away. I then kicked the heater on for the spa, and sure enough, the flow errors returned. Just wondering if anyone else has had a problem like this or if it is just some random glitch? It is still under warranty, so my PB is coming out this week to replace it. I've turned it off and bought a couple of bottles of bleach in the meantime.
IC40 Temerature Related Flow Error?
- Thread starter cdchris1
- Start date
Chris,
The flow switch should not be sensitive to heat... Either there is enough flow to close the switch or not...
What is your filter pressure? It sounds like a dirty filter to me, but with a CCP-420 it would have to be really dirty.
Are you saying that increasing the pump speed did not turn the switch on at all, even at say 3K rpm???
Thanks,
Jim R.
The flow switch should not be sensitive to heat... Either there is enough flow to close the switch or not...
What is your filter pressure? It sounds like a dirty filter to me, but with a CCP-420 it would have to be really dirty.
Are you saying that increasing the pump speed did not turn the switch on at all, even at say 3K rpm???
Thanks,
Jim R.
The filter was cleaned right after I opened the pool and is is running at my normal pressure. My typical pressure is 8psi, but I bumped up my RPM for the time being, so I am running around 10psi. I get the error even with the pump at full speed (3450 rpm) though. That is what was really throwing me. I tend to think it is a problem with the board though and not actually the switch. It is almost like the electronics on the board do not register the switch when it is hot.
Chris,
My normal operating pressure is a little less than 2 lbs... But then I run my pump at 1200 rpm most of the time...
If the switch did not close at full speed, for sure there is an issue... I'm not sure it is temp related but could be I suppose.
Besides the electronics, it could be as simple as an intermittent flow switch itself... It the switch has been replaced already, it could be at the crimps used to install the new switch...
If under warranty, I would report it... and get it fixed... If out of warranty a new flow switch is less than $100 bucks and is a pretty easy DIY repair..
Thanks,
Jim R.
My normal operating pressure is a little less than 2 lbs... But then I run my pump at 1200 rpm most of the time...
If the switch did not close at full speed, for sure there is an issue... I'm not sure it is temp related but could be I suppose.
Besides the electronics, it could be as simple as an intermittent flow switch itself... It the switch has been replaced already, it could be at the crimps used to install the new switch...
If under warranty, I would report it... and get it fixed... If out of warranty a new flow switch is less than $100 bucks and is a pretty easy DIY repair..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Thanks Jim. The lowest I could get my cell to work when new was at 1500 rpm, so I typically run at 1750 so I have some cushion. It is under warranty and my PB is coming out this week to replace it. I'll have to play with my lowest rpm with the new cell.
As a side note, they had me run a diagnostic test and sent him the video. I know I have read about that on here before, but cannot find it for the life of me. Just wondering if there is a post somewhere that interprets the results. Thanks!
As a side note, they had me run a diagnostic test and sent him the video. I know I have read about that on here before, but cannot find it for the life of me. Just wondering if there is a post somewhere that interprets the results. Thanks!
Chris,
Are you talking about the following info??? (Which I stole from one of our Experts...)
The Intellichlor keeps changing depending on the version, so it’s hard to keep up with what versions do what. They also hide a lot of useful information, which also makes it difficult to diagnose.
Pressing and holding the “More” button launches the System Status Mode. When the lights finish scrolling, the percent lights indicate hours of usage in 1,000s. For example, if the 40% light lights, that indicates 4,000 hours.
Version 3.1 on adds the ability to determine system temperature. Pressing the “More” button after the display shows 1,000s of hours of usage, will show temperature as follows:
Lights…………….....………Temperature
No LEDs………….…..………Below 30F
40%..........................36 to 45F
40% and 60%............46 to 55F
60%..........................56 to 65F
60% and 80%............66 to 75F
80%.........................76 to 85F
80 and 100%............86 to 95F
100%.......................96 to 99F
100% blinking……..….over 99F
All LEDs blinking……...Sensor bad
The temperature sensor is a 10k thermistor. Its resistance varies based on the temperature. The way it varies is known precisely. So the box measures resistance in ohms and calculates the temperature.
If the thermistor fails in a way that’s obvious to the software, the software will ignore the thermistor and use 75 degrees F as the temperature.
When using 75 as the default temperature, the salinity will be miscalculated by the software for any water temperature other than 75 F.
The further the water temperature is from 75F, the more error there will be in the salinity calculation.
If the thermistor drifts off calibration in a way that’s not obvious to the software, the software will use the incorrect temperature and the salinity will be off depending on how far the water temperature is from what the software thinks the temperature is.
I suspect that the software is probably getting a temperature reading in the high 80s or 90s.
One thing you could do is to cut the green and white wires. This should make the software use 75 F as the default temperature since it will lose contact with the sensor. This might make the cell work again.
You could measure the resistance of the sensor by putting the test leads on the green and white wires going to the sensor. The resistance should match a 10k thermistor chart. For example.
Temperature……….Ohms
60……………………… 15,310
70……………………… 11,882
77…………………….. 10,000 (The 10K reference point)
80…………………….… 9,297
90......................7,333
For example, if you measure the resistance as 7,333 ohms, the system thinks the temperature is 90F.
However, if the water is only 65 F, then the system is going to calculate the salinity as much lower than actual.
A light acid wash might help.
Increasing the salinity to about 3,800 to 4,500 ppm might help.
Jim R.
Are you talking about the following info??? (Which I stole from one of our Experts...)
The Intellichlor keeps changing depending on the version, so it’s hard to keep up with what versions do what. They also hide a lot of useful information, which also makes it difficult to diagnose.
Pressing and holding the “More” button launches the System Status Mode. When the lights finish scrolling, the percent lights indicate hours of usage in 1,000s. For example, if the 40% light lights, that indicates 4,000 hours.
Version 3.1 on adds the ability to determine system temperature. Pressing the “More” button after the display shows 1,000s of hours of usage, will show temperature as follows:
Lights…………….....………Temperature
No LEDs………….…..………Below 30F
40%..........................36 to 45F
40% and 60%............46 to 55F
60%..........................56 to 65F
60% and 80%............66 to 75F
80%.........................76 to 85F
80 and 100%............86 to 95F
100%.......................96 to 99F
100% blinking……..….over 99F
All LEDs blinking……...Sensor bad
The temperature sensor is a 10k thermistor. Its resistance varies based on the temperature. The way it varies is known precisely. So the box measures resistance in ohms and calculates the temperature.
If the thermistor fails in a way that’s obvious to the software, the software will ignore the thermistor and use 75 degrees F as the temperature.
When using 75 as the default temperature, the salinity will be miscalculated by the software for any water temperature other than 75 F.
The further the water temperature is from 75F, the more error there will be in the salinity calculation.
If the thermistor drifts off calibration in a way that’s not obvious to the software, the software will use the incorrect temperature and the salinity will be off depending on how far the water temperature is from what the software thinks the temperature is.
I suspect that the software is probably getting a temperature reading in the high 80s or 90s.
One thing you could do is to cut the green and white wires. This should make the software use 75 F as the default temperature since it will lose contact with the sensor. This might make the cell work again.
You could measure the resistance of the sensor by putting the test leads on the green and white wires going to the sensor. The resistance should match a 10k thermistor chart. For example.
Temperature……….Ohms
60……………………… 15,310
70……………………… 11,882
77…………………….. 10,000 (The 10K reference point)
80…………………….… 9,297
90......................7,333
For example, if you measure the resistance as 7,333 ohms, the system thinks the temperature is 90F.
However, if the water is only 65 F, then the system is going to calculate the salinity as much lower than actual.
A light acid wash might help.
Increasing the salinity to about 3,800 to 4,500 ppm might help.
Jim R.
Thanks again Jim, I knew I saw that somewhere. That is the test that they had me run. All my LED's blink, so that would indicate a failed sensor. That would correlate to it appearing to be temperature related as well. Is the thermistor part of the flow switch, or a separate sensor? If it is part of the flow switch, that might explain why i am getting a flow error.
The temperature sensor is in the flow switch but it shouldn't affect the flow switch part.
Since the temp sensor is part of the flow switch, then there may be more wrong with it than just the temp sensor, thus throwing the error. It is under warranty and the whole cell is being replaced, but this has helped me wrap my head around it. I like knowing what the problem is before we just start replacing things. Thanks again for all the help.
**UPDATE** So they did not replace the entire cell, but did replace the flow switch, twice, and I am still having the same issue. The original switch did show bad on the cell diagnostics, but both replacements show that the switch is fine. The Pentair rep that my PB has been working with insists it is a flow problem since the diagnostic is OK. From my own experimenting though, I have found that it is definitely heat related somehow. If the air temps are in the 70s, no issue. If the temps are in the low 80s and cloudy, no issue, if it is sunny, then I get the error when the cell is in full sun. If the air temps are in the high 80s or above, I get the error. I am able to get the error to clear if I shade the cell from the sun during the low 80 and sunny conditions. If I pull the shade and expose it to the sun again, it will error. The change is not instantaneous, so it is like it is cooling and heating back up. It is really strange. Any thoughts?