I will not GIVE UP! (well maybe ;)

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Re: I GIVE UP!

Mine runs about 11psi and will go for a long time barely moving, then all of a sudden it'll jump up to 18 or 19psi and I know it's time to backwash. I guess it reaches critical mass or something and clogs! :) Just don't be surprised if yours jumps up all of a sudden.
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

Last night - FC 13, water still blue and very cloudy. Baracuda working all day. My SWG has been off, when I tried to turn it on last night, I got an error code. So - I am to solely BBB until I get it up and going. I added 24 oz of muratic acid this am to bring down the TA - on my way home to re-test. Can't imagine why the water stays so cloudy. This is not getting better.
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

MOM&POP DIY said:
Last night - FC 13, water still blue and very cloudy. Baracuda working all day. My SWG has been off, when I tried to turn it on last night, I got an error code. So - I am to solely BBB until I get it up and going. I added 24 oz of muratic acid this am to bring down the TA - on my way home to re-test. Can't imagine why the water stays so cloudy. This is not getting better.
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Muriatic acid is generally used to lower pH. Aeration is regarded as the best way to lower TA. Double check your pH after adding the muriatic acid.

The pollen bloom here in NC wrecked havoc on my pool. It took me quite a while to clear it. One thing I swear by is running the filter 24/7. Keep the water moving. Redirect the return eyeballs down toward the bottom of the deep end helped too. Brushing helped even more.

You haven't posted a calcium level recently. Can you test for that?
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

ivyleager said:
Muriatic acid is generally used to lower pH. Aeration is regarded as the best way to lower TA.
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You have it partially right. It's a two step process. You use muratic acid to lower pH and it also lowers TA. Then aeration (whether naturally occuring or induced) raises pH without raising TA back up.
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

I just rechecked my levels. The muratic acid was added early this am.
fc 15
cc 0
ph 7.5
ta 120
cya 80

still cloudy, return is blowing up towards surface of water (fot past 4-5 days)
Cary, i am in nc too - and this all began with the huge pine pollen.
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

All that I added was the muratic acid. Nothing else. I did take the baracuda out. No explanation. I'll take again at night fall, but my cc were definitely 0 . Do you think I should add acid again tomorrow. I would like to lower my ta a little more - do you agree.
 

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Re: I GIVE UP!

Are you still filtering 24/7?

Did you open the filter and check the sand as FPM suggested? What size filter? Pump?

Please update your signature to include your pump and filter info. This will be very helpful.
(Sigs are limited to 5 lines of text :wink: )

Don't worry about the rain, it will have little effect. Just keep working on your pool and keep the POP!
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

We really want to help you clear this up but somethings you have posted are inconsistent - and I want to make sure you are understanding our instructions and that you are following our recommendations. :wink:

MOM&POP DIY said:
All that I added was the muratic acid. Nothing else.
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Then we have to raise the question of testing error - as chlorine doesn't go up on it's own. I recommend you review your FC testing procedures. Are you allowing the solution to remain completely clear for 30 seconds or so before moving on to the CC portion of the test?

I asked above:
frustratedpoolmom said:
Your FC was 13 last night and now its 15. Did you check it first thing this morning to see if the FC was holding?
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Please verify that you are following the steps in How to Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test correctly, confirm if you are continuing to rule out organics - you need to do so until the water clears.

MOM&POP DIY said:
I would like to lower my ta a little more - do you agree.
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Maybe, it depends:

ivyleager said:
You haven't posted a calcium level recently. Can you test for that?
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Actually, on this thread, you haven't posted a calcium level at all. Please post your CH level.

And lastly, your signature says 24,500 gallons - but in an earlier post you said:

MOM&POP DIY said:
Oh I forgot to say my borate level is 30. For 29,000 gallons, what should it be?
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So please clarify the correct gallonage.

Have you opened up the filter to check the sand to see if its channelled?
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

Mom and Pop -- I'm just a lurker, but wanted to say to keep up the good work, stay patient, and re-read the stuff FPM pointed you to in order to be sure you are doing the testing correctly. These guys will get it cleared up for you if you stick with it and be sure they get good info. Best of luck:)
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

ivyleager said:
frustratedpoolmom said:
Have you opened up the filter to check the sand to see if its channelled?
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Why check? If it's suspected, all she needs to do is put filter to rinse setting and it will resettle the sand, right? That's why my filter directions state.
Click to expand...


Instructions: My sand is channelled, how do I fix it?
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

Thank you all for your help. I agree that my posts reflect inconsistencies - so I will try to explain or update as necessary.

In reference to the chlorine rising from 13 - 15 overnight. I have no real explanation except I opened a new bottle of #871 a few days before. It was not dark on the evening before, but dusk - and I did the test outside. I paid careful attention to the drops in a repeat yesterday and noted that this "new" bottle has inconsistent drop sizes - while most of the drops are consistent - it drops several smaller ones also (actually they "fall" right after a regular sized drop.) My old bottle was consistent, I will look to see if I have thrown it away (it was empty). If I still have it, I will see if I can transfer the contents. If not, I guess I need to purchase a medicinal dropper.

My pool is a 18x36 - 4ft to 8ft. Last year when the signature was first entered, I took the pool diagram, divided the measures into thirds (as there are 3 levels - 4 ft, 8 ft and a middle section that declines from 4 to 8). Using geometric principles on each third (as the side walls also have slants), I tried very hard to get an exact measure of the gallons. Using that method - I came up with 24,500. Now if I simply put the measures in the pool calc, 18 by 36 and use and average depth of 6 foot - then I get 29100. So, realizing that the pool calc calculations are based on the averages, I have used 29000 - allowing for not being completely full.

I have not performed a calcium level since last year. It was 60 then, and my test kit says it is mainly a concern for masonry pools. My pool is vinyl, and I have not added anything but borax, acid, salt, baking soda and clorox - I took the advice of the test kit label and did not do that test.

I have not checked the filter for channeling - but my husband is home today and he said that he would do that today. I have done a backwash to rinse, but have not taken the top off - as I lack the physical strength. I really think we will find something there. My pressures are still maintaining at about 14psi. The basket at the filter is clean, my skimmer was clean (at this moment the baracuda is running). I brushed again last night.

Now - I did make somemore changes last night. My swg is up and running now. My salt was low - 2400, so I added 80 pounds. Before adding the salt I replaced about 4 inches of water. SWG is now running, so overnight chlorine level would not be accurate. I had feared my SWG was needing repair, but it only needed to be reset and salt added.

My 4yr old grandson has a soccer game this morning at 9am - that I plan to attend, then when I return, I'm going to test the waters again and open the filter.
Thanks again for taking the time to help me think through my pool problems. You guys are GREAT!
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

Very good - ok, thanks for getting into the specifics that does help us understand alot better. And I'm with you on the equipment side of things - I often have to have my DH do the equipment stuff - some of it I just can't manage! :wink:

Re: the gallonage - that was my concern (which number were you using as your "target" for bleach dosing) so If you've been using the 29,000 you certainly are not under-shooting it. :goodjob:

I wouldn't use a different dropper bottle - just keep using the new one - you can wipe the tip off with a damp cloth between drops -see if that's any help (it's a known issue with the R-009 for the TA test - static electricity being the cause - but I have yet to hear about it on the chlorine test) I don't know if switching to a different bottle (unless it's the old one as you suggested) would throw off results further? Duraleigh would know, we'll ask him.

Higher TA and PH combined with high CH can cause cloudy water - which is why I asked about the CH. You are correct, if your level was 60 that's fine for vinyl - but it's a good idea to do the test again just to verify things and rule that out.

A TA of 120 is not awful. When the SWG is operating, it will cause your PH to drift up and sometimes it will be rapid and perhaps even annoying. The key is the PH - never let it go above 7.8. Everytime it hits 7.8 (or higher) use Muratic Acid to lower the PH to 7.2. These acid additions will also lower your TA and it will drop into range. So just monitor these things.

Now, if you find when you do your calculations for the Muratic Acid, and your target is 7.2, and you end up at lowering the 7.0-6.8- then it would be safe to guess the 29,000 gallons is probably not accurate and we'll need to figure out the correct gallonage.

As for the sand -
ivyleager said:
Why check? If it's suspected, all she needs to do is put filter to rinse setting and it will resettle the sand, right?
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Normally, yes, but there have been cases where the sand is extremely channelled and clumped and rinsing doesn't resettle it. Which is why we recommend checking it during extreme prolonged cases of cloudiness when algae is dead.

So glad the SWG is working - that would have been one more thing to deal with right? :hammer: :wink:

What I would like for you to do today is:

1) check the sand - if its channelled follow the steps in the link Butterfly provided above. (and let us know, LOL, if the mystery has been solved :mrgreen: )
3) keep your FC above your "target" level for your CYA -I want it slightly higher than normal for today.
2) repeat the overnight test tonight - turn off the swg, don't add any bleach. Write down your FC level before bedtime. Test again, first thing in the a.m. and compare the results - do this before the sun hits the pool. If your FC is holding, we can rule out organics as the source of the cloudy water. Let us know those results. :)

Ok, keeping my fingers crossed we can find you a solution this weekend. :goodjob:
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

Today's adventure in pool care - First of all, it may be my imagination, but there may be a very slight improvement in water today. As I previously reported, I got the SWG up and running - it has had its 90 day checkup and maintenance. Salt was low, so I added 80 pounds last night, ran the baracuda all night, and replaced about 4 inches of water. Mid day testing:
FC - 16
CC - .5
TA 110
ph 7.8
ch 40
CYA 70
Borates 30
Salt - 2800

I like my salt to run slightly over 3000 so I added 40 more pounds of salt. Because the ph was already up before adding the additional salt, and the ta only came down to 110 with 24 oz of muratic acid, I added 48 oz of muratic.
I opened up the filter - and to be honest did not know what to look for to find "channelling", but not green in there. There was a fine substance that looked at lot like "Carolina Pine Pollen" on top of the sand in patches. So I took the running water hose and begin to wash it down into the sand. Awful pale yellowish water would come up through the central tube in some areas. I left the water running in those spots until it ran clear. What I did note is that in some places the hose went through the sand so easily, while in others it was difficult at first - then the sand would seem to get fluffy. I continued this until I did not locate anymore yellow areas. This yellow stuff looked like the Pine pollen also. It was AWFUL here this year for 2 weeks. My house, cars, pond in the front yard - everything was yellow. I really think the sand was full of that pollen. So when I closed it back up, the run off was mostly clear. So the SWG has run for almost 24 hours, I'm going out to take some more readings as it is very rainy cloudy here, and for the most part the sun is down for the day - but not dark yet. I'll be back shortly.
 
Re: I GIVE UP!

Okay - still cloudy, but I still think I can see a little further down the back wall in the deep end. Readings
FC - 16
cc - 0
t/a - 110
ph 7.5
CYA 70
Salt 2800 (by control panel) did not do test strip this time, I don't think I have had complete dissolve yet with the last 40 pds.
Pump at 14 psi
Temp 71
Weather - rainy, cloud with more rain forecasted for tonight and tomorrow - so I'm leaving the swg running until next clear night for overnite testing.
 

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