Chemgeek, everything is looking fine as of today, the water is crystal clear and my OCLT was 0 this morning, I have not added clorox for the past two days and I am down to 8.5 as of this morning, I am letting it come down off of shock and will figure out my loss everyday to keep above 3. Really appreciate the help and diagnosis, I wish I had posted earlier in the year when we kept fighting it. Looks like thats what it was, poor circulation along with the ladder. This is a lesson learned about letting the return ripple the top of the water a little bit, it does not circulate the water enough in the deeper water. I thought I had it right because you could see the water moving in a circle around the pool to the skimmer. It seems it works best, for me anyway, pointed directly at the floor hitting the floor at about 6 feet out and slightly to the right. No surface ripple but you can see the water moving a great deal allover including around the ladder across from the pool and the leaves do go into the skimmer like this. Again tks for the guidance and answers, another story that proves how great this forum is.