How do you repair your push pull valves?

[plnewb]

Do I throw this whole push pull valve away or is there a split union nut I can purchase?

I cracked the nuts when taking out the filter so I could wash the grids and the filter and the top nut is completely gone - kind of like in the picture

Does this mean I now need to completely throw away the existing valve and put in a brand new one?

I could imagine I would have to cut the bulkhead (the white fittings) carefully and put in the nut and new bulkheads again, but I am really hoping I can skip all of that by buying split unions from somewhere!

It feels like this is the closest match to what I need: Amazon.com but this would require me to cut out the fitting that goes into the valve, which I will then have to buy new just so I can put this nut in?

or can I purchase split unions from somewhere?

 

[ajw22]

What model filter are we discussing?

I believe all the unions on filters use proprietary threads.

Let's see what @1poolman1 thinks.

 

[1poolman1]

What model filter are we discussing?

I believe all the unions on filters use proprietary threads.

Let's see what @1poolman1 thinks.

Yup, proprietary threads. Pentair took the old American Pool Products (which Pac-Fab bought 25+ years ago) valve and glued their filter bulkhead fittings into them. A new valve is the easiest, and most reliable, way to fix this problem, unfortunately. If a 2" coupler will fit over the portion the the existing connectors are in, then cutting them off flush and gluing a 2" coupler over the port then Pentair 271096 fittings in them might work.

Since those Pentair fittings are expensive, it doesn't look like the valve has been installed, and the valve can be found for as little as $85.00 at the site below that's likely the best option.

FNS Plus Quad Filter Slide Backwash Valve 263064

Buy FNS Plus Quad Filter Slide Backwash Valve 263064 for the best price.

azpoolshop.com

​

 

[plnewb]

Some questions:

1. Are those bright white nuts on the two ports called "slip union nuts"?
2. I also have a Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP240. The ID of the slip union nut on it seems to match up with the ID of the slip union nut on this valve and the thread looks like a close fit
3. If they turn out to be compatible, then I could just purchase one of these and use them to replace the broken slip union nuts on this valve?

Amazon.com

I attached the dimensions from the amazon link for the Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP240 but to be clear these are not dimensions of the bright white nuts but a potential match

The real challenge, if the dimensions from the amazon link matches up, would be to then locate a split union nut that has the same dimensions

 

[ajw22]

Yes, those union nuts should be compatible.

But how much are you really saving over just buying a new slide valve that will be problem free?

 

[plnewb]

Yes, those union nuts should be compatible.

I answered that question below but I want to use the right words:

Are those bright white nuts on the two ports called "slip union nuts"?

But how much are you really saving over just buying a new slide valve that will be problem free?

I don't want to support businesses and companies that design proprietary fittings where it wasn't necessary.

This valve is dead to me - they don't sell it and I can't buy it.

I am perfectly fine spending 10x money and even more time if I end up with something that's easy to fix in a pinch by ordering a part off amazon or HD/Lowes/WM and local plumbing suppliers in my local community.

I am lucky to have a lot of time on my hands and can indulge myself on these crusades - I understand someone else, like a pool repair person won't be able to venture on such a crusade and would just buy a new valve (and charge the customer for it)

As you can see, if ONE NUT on this thing gets damaged, I have to throw away the WHOLE thing.

That, to me, is insane. I cannot support this nonsense

It's a bad, bad design that I personally find revolting.

It's like if you bought a phone from a company that pretty much requires you to throw away your whole phone if the battery or screen is damaged.

Pools are not rockets or heart surgery - it doesn't have to be complicated the way it is in residential pool equipment.

 

[1poolman1]

I answered that question below but I want to use the right words:

Are those bright white nuts on the two ports called "slip union nuts"?




I don't want to support businesses and companies that design proprietary fittings where it wasn't necessary.

This valve is dead to me - they don't sell it and I can't buy it.

I am perfectly fine spending 10x money and even more time if I end up with something that's easy to fix in a pinch by ordering a part off amazon or HD/Lowes/WM and local plumbing suppliers in my local community.

I am lucky to have a lot of time on my hands and can indulge myself on these crusades - I understand someone else, like a pool repair person won't be able to venture on such a crusade and would just buy a new valve (and charge the customer for it)

As you can see, if ONE NUT on this thing gets damaged, I have to throw away the WHOLE thing.

That, to me, is insane. I cannot support this nonsense

It's a bad, bad design that I personally find revolting.

It's like if you bought a phone from a company that pretty much requires you to throw away your whole phone if the battery or screen is damaged.

Pools are not rockets or heart surgery - it doesn't have to be complicated the way it is in residential pool equipment.

Your best option is to replace that valve, or the entire filter. You don't want to support a company that makes proprietary parts and yet you probably drive an automobile from one manufacturer who's parts are not interchangeable with another make. Its done all the time. Can't put Chevy parts on a Ford.

 

[plnewb]

Can't put Chevy parts on a Ford

The analogy isn't apt. I am not talking about putting Chevy parts on a Ford or a Honda.

I am talking about Chevy using non standard bolts that only they sell where bog standard bolts that can be purchased from any other manufacturer would have sufficed.

I would imagine you would be upset if you had to throw away your whole tire, wheel and hub because Chevy used non standard nuts and bolts to clamp the wheel on the hub and you cross threaded the bolt and Chevy doesn't sell the bolt - you have to buy the whole wheel and hub.

Wheels and hubs have been designed for nearly a 100 years now and all built using bog standard parts - the only reason why Chevy would do this is greed and malice to milk their customers.

We don't have to agree on this, but to me, having to buy the whole wheel and hub because one bolt needs to be replaced is crazy talk and I can't have this.

I do agree I should replace that valve, or the entire filter, and that's what I am going to do - starting with that valve and then the entire filter once it cracks

 

[plnewb]

I really would like to know this though - I want to use the right words to not confuse people:

Are those bright white nuts on the two ports called "slip union nuts"?

What's the industry standard term for those bright white nuts?

 

[1poolman1]

I really would like to know this though - I want to use the right words to not confuse people:

Are those bright white nuts on the two ports called "slip union nuts"?

What's the industry standard term for those bright white nuts?

Sometimes called a union nut, sometimes a union collar.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I am not unsymnpathtic to your argument that it can be maddening when manufacturers make things harder for the consumer to fix. I recently (well, a year and half ago) gave up on Dolphin pool robots and went back to using suction side cleaners because the robots are built for failure. They are designed to only last 3-5 years and when something significant breaks, you have to replace the entire sub-component which, for a motor assembly, is half the cost or more of a new robot. You can not get the internal components of the motor assembly itself. So their entire business model is predicated on the consumer electronics way of doing things - stuff is obsolete after 18-24 months and it just makes sense to buy new.

As for the union nuts, yes they are proprietary thread but there is an advantage to that - the thread pitch is longer than standard PVC which means it takes fewer turns of the hand or a strap wrench to tighten them. The pool equipment pad is often the last thing any builder thinks about, if they even think about it at all. And pool equipment is often installed in tight spaces with stuff oriented in the wrong direction so as to make it nearly impossible for a human being to work on it. So having a nut with fewer turns to achieve tightness is a huge benefit to installers and technicians. But that does mean it will be a non-standard part and simply cost more. It's the price that is paid for the engineering decisions made. Pentair has these types of non-standard thread unions on all of their equipment (because it's cheaper to use one piece of hardware across multiple product lines). And, unlike cars, not everyone has, wants, or needs a swimming pool ... it is considered a "luxury market" and so the pricing will be fixed accordingly.

Being outraged at it is simply nothing more than screaming at the wind ... there's no value in it and no chance it will change anything. Perhaps accept this bit of life wisdom -

You have to accept the fact that [in life] sometimes you are the pigeon, and sometimes you are the statue.

 

[plnewb]

there is an advantage to that - the thread pitch is longer than standard PVC which means it takes fewer turns of the hand or a strap wrench to tighten them. The pool equipment pad is often the last thing any builder thinks about, if they even think about it at all. And pool equipment is often installed in tight spaces with stuff oriented in the wrong direction so as to make it nearly impossible for a human being to work on it.

This was a valuable insight, Thank You!

I guess, Pentair designed for the more common case where the pool was constrained in space and not designed well, putting those who did design the pool with more than sufficient space at a disadvantage of paying for the sins of who did not.

Personally, I am removing the valve and replacing them with discrete 2 way valves. I am lucky that my uncle designed his pool and mine and left a tremendous amount of space and clearance because he expected to work on the equipment himself. I am starting to see method in his madness and am glad I dont have to make compromises on space