Houston, TX Pool Build Diary - From Design to Dive-In
- Thread starter platipus
- Start date
I have two theories.
1 His pool is finished and he never gets out of it and wifi doesn't work in the backyard.
2 He has been converted to the pool store ways and is spending all his time flocking and shocking and draining and getting "free" water tests.
:-D
1 His pool is finished and he never gets out of it and wifi doesn't work in the backyard.
2 He has been converted to the pool store ways and is spending all his time flocking and shocking and draining and getting "free" water tests.
:-D
[emoji33] Does that actually happen after someone has found TFP??
I just hope all is okay. Sending up a prayer [emoji1317] for him that he's just lost in pool bliss (and did not get pool stored [emoji86]).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey all!!!
First off, apologies for leaving everyone hanging. I thought I had this thread setup so I would get notifications for any replies/posts. Evidently, that has not been happening. I just assumed it had rolled into the archives and that I would pick it up again when I had more to post.
Second, well, we've had some issues. Lemme get y'all a summary and then I'll do a real update here in the next couple of days.
So I think the last real update s posted about the swimjet angle being off. That was fixed about 6 weeks ago. Since then we had spa tile go in and some more masonry work, but things have been slow. #1, the May/June rains we had here just killed things. I think we had 3 weeks of rain either every day or every 2-3 days at least. It keep things wet and muddy.
It dried out finally and things picked up for a bit, but we still had delays. The capstone we changed to had to get ordered and that took about 2 weeks.
Then on the spa, we had some issue with the way the mason had cut the glass tiles. He used a mason saw instead of a glass cutter and the edges were (and still are) jagged. We've asked for a glass cutter/snapper to be employed and so that means a lot of tiles have to be popped off and re-set.
Then (and this is the big one) about 15% of all of our waterline tile "fractured" some time after installation. This was tile that we found from an online company. They say this is an installation issue, but my spidey-sense is telling me this is a product issue. We're working to sort this out, but the long and the short of it is that all waterline tile (the aqua/clear blue tile) had to be torn out. We are now waiting for a similar product from NPT to get shipped down from Dallas so we can have it all out of the same dye lot. I think that will get down here next week. The mason wants to have his full crew going when all materials are ready and so we are just waiting right now. If it doesn't rain more, I expect things to finally get moving again maybe week after next.
It's a total drag, but I'm not sure what else we can do. In the end it will be the way we want it.
So that's the scoop. Again sorry for disappearing, but I had no idea anyone was even posting to look for updates....
plat.
First off, apologies for leaving everyone hanging. I thought I had this thread setup so I would get notifications for any replies/posts. Evidently, that has not been happening. I just assumed it had rolled into the archives and that I would pick it up again when I had more to post.
Second, well, we've had some issues. Lemme get y'all a summary and then I'll do a real update here in the next couple of days.
So I think the last real update s posted about the swimjet angle being off. That was fixed about 6 weeks ago. Since then we had spa tile go in and some more masonry work, but things have been slow. #1, the May/June rains we had here just killed things. I think we had 3 weeks of rain either every day or every 2-3 days at least. It keep things wet and muddy.
It dried out finally and things picked up for a bit, but we still had delays. The capstone we changed to had to get ordered and that took about 2 weeks.
Then on the spa, we had some issue with the way the mason had cut the glass tiles. He used a mason saw instead of a glass cutter and the edges were (and still are) jagged. We've asked for a glass cutter/snapper to be employed and so that means a lot of tiles have to be popped off and re-set.
Then (and this is the big one) about 15% of all of our waterline tile "fractured" some time after installation. This was tile that we found from an online company. They say this is an installation issue, but my spidey-sense is telling me this is a product issue. We're working to sort this out, but the long and the short of it is that all waterline tile (the aqua/clear blue tile) had to be torn out. We are now waiting for a similar product from NPT to get shipped down from Dallas so we can have it all out of the same dye lot. I think that will get down here next week. The mason wants to have his full crew going when all materials are ready and so we are just waiting right now. If it doesn't rain more, I expect things to finally get moving again maybe week after next.
It's a total drag, but I'm not sure what else we can do. In the end it will be the way we want it.
So that's the scoop. Again sorry for disappearing, but I had no idea anyone was even posting to look for updates....
plat.
OHNO! that is SO sad about that tile. It was SO pretty! 
I am sure the new tile will be as pretty but..........$$$
ummmmmm on them not cutting the tile how you wanted it cut and it being jagged Not good at all!
Thanks for the updates!
Kim:cat:
I am sure the new tile will be as pretty but..........$$$ ummmmmm on them not cutting the tile how you wanted it cut and it being jagged
Not good at all!Thanks for the updates!
Kim:cat:
Plat, so sorry to hear, but I'm glad y'all got it worked out. All it takes is money, right?? Too bad you weren't in Tahiti, though! .
Post pics when you get a chance.
. Post pics when you get a chance.
Welcome back to your thread, we've been keeping it warm for you. So, much for pool done Plat and Mrs Plat in it ignoring us! Dang it. But, as you say, do it right.
OK, so the tile issue. Here is what happened.
Waterline tile went in about 2 months ago (seems like). It looked great and we were really happy with it. Then sometime about 3 weeks ago, we went out to mark the ones that were chipped so they could be replaced. We noticed some fractures in some tiles, and then more and more and more. The entire perimeter of tile had these fractures. It didn't mater if they were near an edge, corner, were under coping, wall ledgestone or just more tile.
This is a closeup of what the fractures looked like.
This section of tile is where we raised the pool beam wall for a planter box and ran the tile up and over the top and into the inside of the planter box. Tile was cracked on top and inside the planter as well.
We were completely flummoxed by this. Our builder had no idea what could have done that to the tile. They've installed plenty of glass tile and never seen anything like it. Regardless, it needed to get replaced.
In the meantime we reached out the the company we found it at as this was really looking like a manufacturing quality issue. They are an online reseller and seemed to be pretty well-known with lots of Pinterest references so at the time we ordered it, we felt pretty comfortable. They asked for pictures which we sent and the response we got back from them was.... sketchy... at best....
They blamed all of the fracturing on the lack of expansion joints. Period. They said they include a paper printout with every box of tile with installation guidelines. It talks about type of mortar and the need for expansion joints against all material change edges and every 8' to 12'. It was all pretty basic installation stuff that read like any full page printout of typical instructions for anything.
They primarily pointed to one of the pictures I sent saying that this was all caused by no expansion joint between the coping and tile line and the ledgestone and tile line.
My problem with that is that there was tile cracked like on that raised planter that didn't butt up to either. Essentially from my perspective, they are hiding behind a wide and encompassing installation guideline that most likely tends to not get followed exactly 100% by anyone. Who would want a vertical expansion joint on water line tile every 8 - 12 feet? I get the one against the coping. Sure, why not.
So I responded back questioning that if this was an expansion joint issue that I would expect some areas to have more and less fractured tiles based on what the butted (or didn't butt) up to. They had no response to this and just keep saying they include installation instructions.
I am not going to publicly mention this company's name since I think forum rules forbid it (unless an admin gives the OK), but this is something people should be aware of when ordering tile online. I guess there are good companies and bad and the amount of online presence doesn't dictate how well they would actually handle a problem.
Regardless, it was clear they were not going to stand behind their product. Our builder fortunately was able to find a 99% exact match to the tile from the NPT product line locally. The NPT tile is just a little bit thicker and bigger (and I wonder if this is on purpose to have a stronger pool tile to avoid an issue like mine). Other than that we took some of the original tile and butted it up against the NPT tile and it looks exactly the same. Same color and iridescence.
The only issue is that locally there was only 100 sq foot available and we needed 116 plus 10 that we want to keep for future repair needs. There is more up in Dallas and we want it all from the same dye lot so we are going to wait for it to arrive.
Our builder said that a big part of the issue here was ordering it online. They don't know this place. Can't walk in and talk to an owner they've been working with for 20 years. Lesson learned by all I guess.... The sad part is that if we had seen this available locally in the first place, we would have gone that road. Buying online had nothing to do about cost. We chose the tile because we literally did not see any we liked when looking at the local showrooms.
The saving grace here is a builder that stands by their name and took care of the issue.
plat.
Waterline tile went in about 2 months ago (seems like). It looked great and we were really happy with it. Then sometime about 3 weeks ago, we went out to mark the ones that were chipped so they could be replaced. We noticed some fractures in some tiles, and then more and more and more. The entire perimeter of tile had these fractures. It didn't mater if they were near an edge, corner, were under coping, wall ledgestone or just more tile.
This is a closeup of what the fractures looked like.
This section of tile is where we raised the pool beam wall for a planter box and ran the tile up and over the top and into the inside of the planter box. Tile was cracked on top and inside the planter as well.
We were completely flummoxed by this. Our builder had no idea what could have done that to the tile. They've installed plenty of glass tile and never seen anything like it. Regardless, it needed to get replaced.
In the meantime we reached out the the company we found it at as this was really looking like a manufacturing quality issue. They are an online reseller and seemed to be pretty well-known with lots of Pinterest references so at the time we ordered it, we felt pretty comfortable. They asked for pictures which we sent and the response we got back from them was.... sketchy... at best....
They blamed all of the fracturing on the lack of expansion joints. Period. They said they include a paper printout with every box of tile with installation guidelines. It talks about type of mortar and the need for expansion joints against all material change edges and every 8' to 12'. It was all pretty basic installation stuff that read like any full page printout of typical instructions for anything.
They primarily pointed to one of the pictures I sent saying that this was all caused by no expansion joint between the coping and tile line and the ledgestone and tile line.
My problem with that is that there was tile cracked like on that raised planter that didn't butt up to either. Essentially from my perspective, they are hiding behind a wide and encompassing installation guideline that most likely tends to not get followed exactly 100% by anyone. Who would want a vertical expansion joint on water line tile every 8 - 12 feet? I get the one against the coping. Sure, why not.
So I responded back questioning that if this was an expansion joint issue that I would expect some areas to have more and less fractured tiles based on what the butted (or didn't butt) up to. They had no response to this and just keep saying they include installation instructions.
I am not going to publicly mention this company's name since I think forum rules forbid it (unless an admin gives the OK), but this is something people should be aware of when ordering tile online. I guess there are good companies and bad and the amount of online presence doesn't dictate how well they would actually handle a problem.
Regardless, it was clear they were not going to stand behind their product. Our builder fortunately was able to find a 99% exact match to the tile from the NPT product line locally. The NPT tile is just a little bit thicker and bigger (and I wonder if this is on purpose to have a stronger pool tile to avoid an issue like mine). Other than that we took some of the original tile and butted it up against the NPT tile and it looks exactly the same. Same color and iridescence.
The only issue is that locally there was only 100 sq foot available and we needed 116 plus 10 that we want to keep for future repair needs. There is more up in Dallas and we want it all from the same dye lot so we are going to wait for it to arrive.
Our builder said that a big part of the issue here was ordering it online. They don't know this place. Can't walk in and talk to an owner they've been working with for 20 years. Lesson learned by all I guess.... The sad part is that if we had seen this available locally in the first place, we would have gone that road. Buying online had nothing to do about cost. We chose the tile because we literally did not see any we liked when looking at the local showrooms.
The saving grace here is a builder that stands by their name and took care of the issue.
plat.
OK, so the tile issue. Here is what happened.
Waterline tile went in about 2 months ago (seems like). It looked great and we were really happy with it. Then sometime about 3 weeks ago, we went out to mark the ones that were chipped so they could be replaced. We noticed some fractures in some tiles, and then more and more and more. The entire perimeter of tile had these fractures. It didn't mater if they were near an edge, corner, were under coping, wall ledgestone or just more tile.
This is a closeup of what the fractures looked like.
This section of tile is where we raised the pool beam wall for a planter box and ran the tile up and over the top and into the inside of the planter box. Tile was cracked on top and inside the planter as well.
We were completely flummoxed by this. Our builder had no idea what could have done that to the tile. They've installed plenty of glass tile and never seen anything like it. Regardless, it needed to get replaced.
In the meantime we reached out the the company we found it at as this was really looking like a manufacturing quality issue. They are an online reseller and seemed to be pretty well-known with lots of Pinterest references so at the time we ordered it, we felt pretty comfortable. They asked for pictures which we sent and the response we got back from them was.... sketchy... at best....
They blamed all of the fracturing on the lack of expansion joints. Period. They said they include a paper printout with every box of tile with installation guidelines. It talks about type of mortar and the need for expansion joints against all material change edges and every 8' to 12'. It was all pretty basic installation stuff that read like any full page printout of typical instructions for anything.
They primarily pointed to one of the pictures I sent saying that this was all caused by no expansion joint between the coping and tile line and the ledgestone and tile line.
My problem with that is that there was tile cracked like on that raised planter that didn't butt up to either. Essentially from my perspective, they are hiding behind a wide and encompassing installation guideline that most likely tends to not get followed exactly 100% by anyone. Who would want a vertical expansion joint on water line tile every 8 - 12 feet? I get the one against the coping. Sure, why not.
So I responded back questioning that if this was an expansion joint issue that I would expect some areas to have more and less fractured tiles based on what the butted (or didn't butt) up to. They had no response to this and just keep saying they include installation instructions.
I am not going to publicly mention this company's name since I think forum rules forbid it (unless an admin gives the OK), but this is something people should be aware of when ordering tile online. I guess there are good companies and bad and the amount of online presence doesn't dictate how well they would actually handle a problem.
Regardless, it was clear they were not going to stand behind their product. Our builder fortunately was able to find a 99% exact match to the tile from the NPT product line locally. The NPT tile is just a little bit thicker and bigger (and I wonder if this is on purpose to have a stronger pool tile to avoid an issue like mine). Other than that we took some of the original tile and butted it up against the NPT tile and it looks exactly the same. Same color and iridescence.
The only issue is that locally there was only 100 sq foot available and we needed 116 plus 10 that we want to keep for future repair needs. There is more up in Dallas and we want it all from the same dye lot so we are going to wait for it to arrive.
Our builder said that a big part of the issue here was ordering it online. They don't know this place. Can't walk in and talk to an owner they've been working with for 20 years. Lesson learned by all I guess.... The sad part is that if we had seen this available locally in the first place, we would have gone that road. Buying online had nothing to do about cost. We chose the tile because we literally did not see any we liked when looking at the local showrooms.
The saving grace here is a builder that stands by their name and took care of the issue.
plat.
That makes me nervous ! We ordered from lightstreams which is online, but so far their response to many emails has been great.
Ive been several times to the NPT showroom and warehouse here in DFW and they are very nice and helpful.
Nice summary. No to posting the company name in your thread. But, if anyone asks in a PM feel free to share it.
It seems a combo of a mfg defect/weakness making it more susceptible to fracture. An expansion joint is a good practice. And probably a little more important with the Texas black clay soil movement and a thinner product. Very good points about buying materials through your PB where their buying power and relationships can really add value when resolving issues.
It seems a combo of a mfg defect/weakness making it more susceptible to fracture. An expansion joint is a good practice. And probably a little more important with the Texas black clay soil movement and a thinner product. Very good points about buying materials through your PB where their buying power and relationships can really add value when resolving issues.
You might be interested in this article. It's a little dated but maybe still valid . . .
Failure of Glass Mosaic Tile | Aquatic Technology Pool Spa | Creating water as Art | Infinity Pool Design, Construction, Luxury Pools, Custom Color Lighted Spas, Animated Fountains, Aquatic Art, Expert Witness | Located in Morgan Hill, CA Serving Internationally
Failure of Glass Mosaic Tile | Aquatic Technology Pool Spa | Creating water as Art | Infinity Pool Design, Construction, Luxury Pools, Custom Color Lighted Spas, Animated Fountains, Aquatic Art, Expert Witness | Located in Morgan Hill, CA Serving Internationally
BigE,
Thank you!! A lot!!!! This is what happened exactly!!! Literally.
So basically, it was probably a sunny and really hot day, we got a typical Houston afternoon rainstorm and poof thermal shock cracks. Maybe it happened all at once, maybe it happened several times. Regardless, it seems a very high possibility. Cheaply made glass product with "green" recycled glass component and no materials engineering performed.
The article even reflects the exact reaction from the supplier!!
I don't know that it does anything for me other than validate my suspicions though. I am going to send this to the vendor just to reiterate with them that I think their position on this is wrong and that in the end, if anyone asks me who they are (pm me if anyone cares to know) that I will be sure to help guide them to a better solution.
plat.
Thank you!! A lot!!!! This is what happened exactly!!! Literally.
So basically, it was probably a sunny and really hot day, we got a typical Houston afternoon rainstorm and poof thermal shock cracks. Maybe it happened all at once, maybe it happened several times. Regardless, it seems a very high possibility. Cheaply made glass product with "green" recycled glass component and no materials engineering performed.
The article even reflects the exact reaction from the supplier!!
I don't know that it does anything for me other than validate my suspicions though. I am going to send this to the vendor just to reiterate with them that I think their position on this is wrong and that in the end, if anyone asks me who they are (pm me if anyone cares to know) that I will be sure to help guide them to a better solution.
plat.
OK so here are some progress updates.
The spa now has a back wall. It's a 3' raised wall as opposed to the 2' wall that is behind the rest of the pool next to it. We needed the extra 1' for the sheer descent that will flow hot water over the middle seat so you can sit under it.
Here is a closeup of the back/4th side of overflow. It is a VERY narrow channel. The mason was not sure how he was going to tile it, but he did it. They had to do it one row of mason block at a time. Run the row. Set tile and grout, then run the next row. It is too narrow to really get your hand down in there, plus it's about 2' down to the floor back there. For cleaning we knew this would provide a challenge, but will just have to use a pressure washer as needed.
Then there are the 2 scuppers. They cut/chiseled in the openings for those. They will be made onsite by the mason out of the same thick flagstone we originally were going to use as our capstone.
Lastly the same deal for the waterfall wall with openings all done. Flagstone with straight cut sides and a natural front edge will be set in each opening and plumbed so each one is a waterfall.
Sadly you can see all the white mortar where the fractured waterline tile was. The new and improved waterline tile is coming in next week, so hopefully once that is here, we'll be back high in gear again and there will be lots of updates to post!
plat.
The spa now has a back wall. It's a 3' raised wall as opposed to the 2' wall that is behind the rest of the pool next to it. We needed the extra 1' for the sheer descent that will flow hot water over the middle seat so you can sit under it.
Here is a closeup of the back/4th side of overflow. It is a VERY narrow channel. The mason was not sure how he was going to tile it, but he did it. They had to do it one row of mason block at a time. Run the row. Set tile and grout, then run the next row. It is too narrow to really get your hand down in there, plus it's about 2' down to the floor back there. For cleaning we knew this would provide a challenge, but will just have to use a pressure washer as needed.
Then there are the 2 scuppers. They cut/chiseled in the openings for those. They will be made onsite by the mason out of the same thick flagstone we originally were going to use as our capstone.
Lastly the same deal for the waterfall wall with openings all done. Flagstone with straight cut sides and a natural front edge will be set in each opening and plumbed so each one is a waterfall.
Sadly you can see all the white mortar where the fractured waterline tile was. The new and improved waterline tile is coming in next week, so hopefully once that is here, we'll be back high in gear again and there will be lots of updates to post!
plat.
Nice work on the channel! Some one earned their paycheck that day! I am thinking a bottle brush or a child's tooth brush for cleaning back there.
LOVE the waterfall! Can't wait to see it in action! WOW! It is a work of art!
Kim:cat:
LOVE the waterfall! Can't wait to see it in action! WOW! It is a work of art!
Kim:cat:
Plat, you have an amazing pool! Wow! It's going to be breathtaking when it's all done!
Wow Plat! You've had a lot going on! Sorry your pool isn't done yet (and that you're not in Tahiti) but glad you're back with updates and progress will begin moving again soon. Please PM me the name of the online tile supply. I ordered several samples from online and am still contemplating if we're going to order any.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your backyard is going to be an oasis for sure. I can't wait to see the finished pool! Good luck on finishing out the build with little or no hiccups!