History of CYA

[xDom]

Is CYA a relatively new thing in pools? I’m confused at the lack of knowledge displayed by the pool store industry about the relationship between CYA and FC.

If there’s a more important chemical relationship in pools I’m unaware.

Why is it that this critical piece of information is ignored? It’s bizarre, it’s like there’s a big elephant in the room that anyone that works in a pool store is blind to.

 

[Texas Splash]

Critical indeed, but nothing new. The industry's generic recommended levels (30-50) have remained the same for decades, making assumptions about how a pool might be chlorinated. These levels disregarded other factors in today's residential pools such as the increased use of salt water generators, type of pool (indoor our outdoor), location of pool (intensity of sunlight) and more. Below is our Wiki article on CYA, but there are many, many more threads on this subject on the forum. Others will reply later I'm sure.

CYA - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[xDom]

Critical indeed, but nothing new. The industry's generic recommended levels (30-50) have remained the same for decades, making assumptions about how a pool might be chlorinated. These levels disregarded other factors in today's residential pools such as the increased use of salt water generators, type of pool (indoor our outdoor), location of pool (intensity of sunlight) and more. Below is our Wiki article on CYA, but there are many, many more threads on this subject on the forum. Others will reply later I'm sure.

CYA - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks, I’m reasonably well up with what ratios are needed.
I’m just stunned at how professionals that work in the industry are unaware of it.
It’s almost like it’s some kind of conspiracy?!

 

[Texas Splash]

It’s almost like it’s some kind of conspiracy?!

When you consider the industry as a whole promotes chlorine tablets and "bags of shock" filled with CYA, only to tell an owner in a few months their CYA is too high and they need to exchange the pool water, THEN turn right around and sell them a new bucket of tabs for $250+ , yeah, it makes you wonder.

 

[Donldson]

No need for a conspiracy. Trichlor is a very stable easily compressible form of chlorine, it was easy to market. Once it caught on a sales ecosystem and set of chemical level standards developed around it (that's why the boilerplate ideal TA is so high). The system works for the salespeople so there's no real interest in changing it. Heck, we're human, even if it didn't turn a profit there'd be reluctance to change it.

Besides, a fair number of people want simplicity. A list of numbers and list of what to add to change their current number to the one it is supposed to be which is the same number it's always supposed to be. Can't print a whole FC/CYA chart on a $5 OTO test, just a little bracket between 1 and 3 that says "ideal".

 

[AUSpool]

I’m just stunned at how professionals that work in the industry are unaware of it.
It’s almost like it’s some kind of conspiracy?!

Those professionals get their information from trade shows, conferences etc. that are funded by the big industry bodies and companies that work really hard to sell stuff to us wether we need it or not. It’s more corporate greed then a conspiracy. We have an old Standard for domestic pool water quality which was written in consultation with the pre-mentioned industry bodies and companies. ICA, a large chemical company, was one of the major stake holders holders at the time and although the standard is about the back yard pool the owners of those pools were not represented, nor were future stake holders such as ourselves.

The various government bodies that should be providing consumer protection have really dropped the ball. We don‘t have a CDC and our EPA thus far doesn’t seem interested. The various departments and our pool and spar association appear to be a bit reluctant to stand up for the consumer after a disastrous product recall and assuring court cases back in 2004. One of the documents tended on behalf of the product manufacturer had nothing to do with how they intended to provide a safer product but rather their right of access to the market.

 

[IceShadow]

It’s convenience.

People would rather just throw some tabs in a pool and let it chlorinate that way and ignore it. It goes green, drain, refill, try again.

Testing on a regular basis and adding liquid chlorine on a daily/bi-daily basis is more than most want to bother doing.

 

[mgtfp]

The chlorine / CYA chemical equilibrium equations and their implications on pool sanitation are at least known since 1974 when O'Brien and his colleagues published their paper "Equilibria in Aqueous Solutions of Chlorinated Isocyanurate". There is a link to the paper in the Wiki article about the CYA Chlorine Relationship (in the chapter about the origin of the relationship):

CYA Chlorine Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

That Wiki article gives you a good overview.

 

[RookiePick]

Follow the money. There is no profit in pool owners spending minimal amounts and not needing to constantly treat recurring problems.

 

[AUSpool]

Is CYA a relatively new thing in pools? I’m confused at the lack of knowledge displayed by the pool store industry about the relationship between CYA and FC.

According to Wikipedia CyA was first synthesized in ~1830. As mentioned, the relationship between FC and CyA was not formally recognized by O’Brien until 1974. O’Brien states that the UV protection properties of CyA where known prior to his published article. I must assume that production of stabilized chlorinated products predates O’Briens article and that some form of testing was done to establish the UV protection properties of CyA prior to 1974 also. Unfortunately that’s where the information trail goes cold until TFP and Chem Geek shared what the chemical companies have quietly ignored. When your on a good gravy train just keep paddling…

So here we are 50 years later and those on the gravy train are still paddling for all their worth. CyA is the best invention ever for the domestic pool owner, second only to the SWCG. It‘s almost criminal that FC and CyA are treated as individual elements as if CyA somehow holds up little umbrellas to protect FC from sun exposure.

If there’s a more important chemical relationship in pools I’m unaware.

The FC/CyA relationship relating to sanitation and oxidation is probably the most important. Alkalinity and it’s relationship with pH would be a close second followed by CSI.

Why is it that this critical piece of information is ignored? It’s bizarre, it’s like there’s a big elephant in the room that anyone that works in a pool store is blind to.

It’s ignored because the major stakeholders in this game are trying to protect their profit margin. That elephant is the industries pet and it’s there to protect thier profit margins.