help with restarting pool and replacing pump(s)

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Pentair Whisperflo WFDS-8 or the WFDS-30. Same pump different labels.


For a little more efficiency and money:

XFDS-8 or the XFDS-30

But I don't think they are worth the extra money.
 
What size pipes do you have coming from the pool and going back to it? Looks like 2".

Whisperflo are a nice efficient larger pump.

This is where the SF would have been nice to know the true power of your existing motor.
There is the WFDS-6 (1.5HP 1.47SF) or -28 (2HP 1.1SF) which are identical with a SFHP = 2.2
Or there is the WFDS-8 (2HP 1.3SF) or -30 (2.5HP 1.04SF) which are identical with a SFHP = 2.6

So just knowing you had a 2HP means it could have been anything from a 2.0 to 2.6 SFHP.

Mark would be able to give you a better recommendation if you can supply all the plumbing information:
# and size of suction and return lines
distance between pad and pool
number and size of spa jets
etc

EDIT: I see he already responded :goodjob:
 
If it were me and my money, I would absolutely see what is going on with BOTH of the pumps before I made any decisions.

That main pump looks to be a 2hp Pentair Challenger pump, and is a real workhorse. It is probably one of the easiest pumps to service, at least in my opinion. The booster pump (and I am less sure on this one) looks like a Polaris PB4. I can take it off and rebuild the wet end in about 30 minutes, if I have good access (I do this about once a week in the season...). A total rebuild of both pumps (sans motors) shouldn't cost more than $150 in parts. The names you quoted are the electric motor manufacturers. If the motors won't start at all, then you might have a case for total replacement...MAYBE. If you are handy, this is all DIY stuff...

I would see what is working and what is not, and get the pumps up and running, if they will, and then learn a bit about the pool before you start making changes. That is a 56 frame motor with a square flange (56YZ) so there are many 2 speed/variable speed motors out there that will retrofit. By the time you get all the leaks fixed, all O rings lubed, and sand cleaned, you might be talking about considerable expense. Spending the money on a new pump at this point may be the last of your worries, depending on how long the pool sat unused with what looks to be a inferior winterization.

I see that it is a plaster pool...with all the runoff and algae, you might have some stains and need an acid wash while the pool is drained. You can do it with water in, but if you are going to drain anyway, do it with the water out.
 
you all have been a wealth of information

got some better measurements today

main pump is 2HP/ SF 1.3
booster pump is 3/4 HP / SF 1.5

both pump motors start briefly (didn't run more than briefly since they're not primed)

piping to main pump is 1.5" PVC
piping to booster pump is 3/4" PVC

the mechanical equipment pad is ~10' from the skimmer basket, which is in the shallow end

the spa has 5x 3/4" jets
the main pool has 5x 3/4" return lines

as far as the plaster finish, it is in rough shape. There is plenty of crazing and a little bit of flaking/delamination. Most of the delam is near the tile line. It will be several years before I can save enough nickels for a new PebbleTec job. I was planning on power-washing it and scrubbing with bleach while it's empty to remove algae/stains. If that doesn't work, what all is involved in an acid wash? Is that something I can do myself? Will it attack the plaster and speed the deterioration?
 
Acid wash...definitely do yourself...there are many threads here if you do a search on how to perform one.

The acid does "eat" the plaster, but the idea is to sacrifice a small layer of stained/faded/chalking plaster to expose the "real" color/condition underneath.

I will say that there are some safety considerations here, so be sure to read up on the usage of Muriatic acid with regards to acid washing a pool. That is some pretty nasty stuff, but if you take the right precautions, the result might save you some major money by putting off a plaster job.
 
Given this information (the single 1.5" suction line), I wonder if Mark would still recommend the larger Whisperflo?

As previously mentioned, the cheapest option would be to just replace the motor (if require) and keep the pump ... you could certainly get a 2-speed motor.
 
That's a tough call.

Based just on the picture, that pump doesn't look to be in best of shape so I would be hesitant to replace just the motor. But if you think it can run for another 10 years, then that is also an option.

As for downsizing, that kind of depends on how strong you want the jets. 1 1/2 HP might be ok but it is hard to tell without knowing a lot more about the setup. To be safe, you might stick with a 2 HP. If you don't mind weaker jets, then you can certainly downsize. Running a large pump on small plumbing may be very inefficient but it really isn't an issue other than the energy costs. It can also cause entrapment issues on the spa drain depending on how that was designed.

I don't normally recommend a VS for replacement pump but in this case, it might be a good investment. It takes all the guess work out of sizing and you can optimize the flow rate for solar and energy savings at the same. Plus the Intelliflo VS 011018 is not that much more than a 2 HP two speed (~$150). Does AZ have any rebates for VS pumps?

http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-IntelliFl ... +VS+011018

http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-WhisperFl ... rds=WFDS-8
 
yeah the main pump is circa 1988 so although it may still work, it has already provided a lifetime of service. The main benefit of replacing would be the energy savings - does anyone have #'s on the efficiency of a single-speed vs. VS or 2-speed?

The VS looks to be in the $800 range, compared to a 2-speed @ $600. Does this include the controller?

It sounds like the piping may be undersized for the required flowrate?
 
The pricing in the links are for just the pump and no external controller. However, the VS has a built in controller and timer so you don't need an external controller for that pump. A two speed timer costs about the same as the price difference between the pumps so again, you are probably better off with the VS.
 

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as far as the cleaning, I plan to go easy with the harsh chemicals and see what comes off

then possibly move up to the big guns

1. pump out and remove any remaining solids
2. rinse entire shell with power washer (water only) and see what comes off
3. scrub down any algae stains with liquid bleach (50/50?) and stiff-bristle brush
4. if necessary, acid wash starting with 25% dilution muriatic acid

I have read some posts about the acid washing and I understand it is harsh on old plaster like mine. Also mainly helpful for metal stains; not sure if that's what I have or mostly organic stains. I'll try to go easy with the pressure washer - It is electric (1800 psi?) so more gentle than a gas power washer. I expect some loose plaster to flake off, so be it. Most of the loose pieces seem to be near the tile line.

Now what about cleaning those tiles? I have 35 years of calcium/scale buildup. I see some people using mechanical methods like shot-blasting or pumice stone. Is there some sort of pumice drill bit I can put in a handheld drill? Can I try some chemicals to dissolve it first? CLR or Lime Away?
 
so I got the pool cleaned up (As good as it's going to get)

pressure washer then bleach on the organic stains, tried muriatic acid on the calcium but it's just too far gone to remove

I started the pump and got some water moving, however only one of the 5 wall jets had any output. I was able to suck some leaves in with a manual vacuum system, but suction is very low. I cleared the leaves out of the pump's filter baskets a couple times. I also backwashed the sand filter a couple times. The first time spit out a bunch of black water (presumably what was left in the filter/pipes) but subsequent times it came out clear.

I pulled out a slug of leaves from the manual vacuum head, but still no real good suction

The new pressure gage on the sand filters shows ~30 pounds of pressure

I've messed around with the million valves and only got flow to go through the wall jets once, and it was pretty weak
 
Sounds like pretty high pressure and low flow, so there may be some blockage on the return side, or valving that is not right.

Can you post pictures of the plumbing?

Have you opened up the filter to inspect the sand?

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short ;)
 
flow rate is definitely not adequate. I'm thinking the one return jet closest to the filter is working, and all the others downstream are not getting sufficient pressure to output anything

I opened up the sand filter and confirmed it is ~1/2 full by poking it with a stick

But I did not change the sand - I'm thinking the bed may be completely compacted/gummed with debris. Is it possible that this would cause 30 psi differential?
 
twd000 said:
flow rate is definitely not adequate. I'm thinking the one return jet closest to the filter is working, and all the others downstream are not getting sufficient pressure to output anything

I opened up the sand filter and confirmed it is ~1/2 full by poking it with a stick

But I did not change the sand - I'm thinking the bed may be completely compacted/gummed with debris. Is it possible that this would cause 30 psi differential?
Click to expand...
I assume you already back washed?

You can clean it. The process is documented here somewhere. Essentially it involves using a hose and gently flushing the sand while very gently breaking up the clumps and avoiding damaging the laterals.

But... More than likely you have clogged returns.


- Sent using Tapatalk
 
UnderWaterVanya said:
twd000 said:
flow rate is definitely not adequate. I'm thinking the one return jet closest to the filter is working, and all the others downstream are not getting sufficient pressure to output anything

I opened up the sand filter and confirmed it is ~1/2 full by poking it with a stick

But I did not change the sand - I'm thinking the bed may be completely compacted/gummed with debris. Is it possible that this would cause 30 psi differential?
Click to expand...
I assume you already back washed?

You can clean it. The process is documented here somewhere. Essentially it involves using a hose and gently flushing the sand while very gently breaking up the clumps and avoiding damaging the laterals.

But... More than likely you have clogged returns.


- Sent using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

yes, I have backwashed several times

the first time spit out a bunch of black water

subsequent backwashes spit out brown cloudy water, but not as bad

I have the filter down to 15 psi in manual-vacuum mode. I feel like I have good suction at the skimmer inlet, but very little flow returning into the pool (just a trickle from half the jets)

How do I check/clean clogged returns? You're talking about the main drains in the deep-end of the pool, and bottom of the spa?

also, I am getting a lot of water spraying out of the sight glass on the filter
 
also does anyone have tips on repairing solar spiral / coils? I have a dozen coils on my roof and about as many leaks

It looks like 1/2" black irrigation tubing - is it cost effective to patch/repair, or do I need to buy all new solar system?
 
The drains are not on the return side ... they are on the suction side.

What size eyeballs are in your returns? You have to have the same amount of water going through the skimmer as returning to the pool. If there are no eyeballs or they are large, you may not feel much return flow.

Not sure I understood. You have lower pressure while vacuuming than in normal filtration mode?

If the solar is true irrigation pipe, then fixing the leak should be easy. I had pipe that was thicker walled than the irrigation pipe so fittings would not work. I got sick of all the leaks and got rid of that setup for true solar panels with a lot more area.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short ;)
 
jblizzle said:
The drains are not on the return side ... they are on the suction side.

What size eyeballs are in your returns? You have to have the same amount of water going through the skimmer as returning to the pool. If there are no eyeballs or they are large, you may not feel much return flow.

Not sure I understood. You have lower pressure while vacuuming than in normal filtration mode?

If the solar is true irrigation pipe, then fixing the leak should be easy. I had pipe that was thicker walled than the irrigation pipe so fittings would not work. I got sick of all the leaks and got rid of that setup for true solar panels with a lot more area.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short ;)
Click to expand...

yeah, I understand the drains are on the suction side, I was asking how to clean them if they are clogged

I have 5 return eyeballs in the pool and 5 return eyeballs in the spa. They're either 1/2" or 3/4" inner pipe diameter
 

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