Help, brand new Pebble Sheen application with dark splotches!

[mlcarrigg]

Hello,
I just had my existing plaster pool completely remodeled. They chipped out all old white plaster and they just finished the pebble application on 4/3. The next day they acid washed, and filled the pool. The pool was done filling a day later on 4/5. After it filled I noticed large areas in the deep end with dark discoloration. The chemistry has been maintained since day 1 by a legit maintenance company and these dark "stains" were apparent from the moment the water started filling (maybe even before) so it is clearly not due to water chemistry in my opinion. The rest of the pool looks great but I am worried something went wrong in the deep end. The builder has asked me to wait a couple of weeks before they take any action. We have not gotten any further than wait and see at this point.

Does anyone here know what this is and whether or not it will resolve on its own? i have done some research and i am worried that they are hydration stains that apparently do not go away. I would love to hear from you if you think you have any input on this issue! I am very worried that this is a real problem!

I have attached a few pics for reference.

Please help!

 

[shanebo]

I typically don't respond to these threads, as every pebble sheen pool I've seen -- including mine -- has some imperfections/irregularities. But this looks pretty bad ...

I can tell you that many splotches/spots in a pebble sheen finish will resolve over the initial 30 day/2 brushings per day period. Not sure if this one will, but I think you just have to keep brushing and hope. If it doesn't, hopefully your PB will do the right thing and fix it.

 

[Dirk]

I had a few dark spots that came and left. I didn't really do anything to cause either event. Probably something organic that succumbed to the chlorine. And maybe why the PB wants to wait a bit.

That said, if it's a PebbleTec product, and not some knockoff, the installation should be warranted, along with the materials used. Even if that means replacement. So I'd only caution that you try no remedies on your own, no matter how harmless they might seem. If your PB gives you a task regarding the spots, be sure he does so in at least an email, so that you can prove you were following instructions directly from the PebbleTec certified installer. Otherwise, let the PB handle it, and allow the warranty process to run its course, and don't do anything to jeopardize it...

- - - Updated - - -

That said, my pebble is six months old, and already showing signs of uneven color. If I remember right, I was warned about this, and even asked to sign something about it, as my understanding is anything darkish, at least pebble and plaster, is subject to this issue. I don't mind the mottling, and would say the same even if I did!! Too late now!! Just be prepared that expecting a perfect finish, with a perfectly even color, with no flaws at all, will likely lead to some disappointment...

 

[mlcarrigg]

Appreciate the advice about not trying any home remedies. As far as the look goes I'm fine with having some imperfections but what mine looks like so far is way outside the normal. It's harder to see in the pictures but in person it just looks like the deep end has a huge dirty spot. I'm willing to give it some time but I sure hope the builder stands behind it if it doesn't improve on its own.

 

[Dirk]

I'm hoping for you that PebbleTec will stand behind it, even if the PB doesn't.

If it helps in your endeavor: the color of my pebble was perfectly even upon installation. And for months after. Nothing like what you're seeing. So I think your complaint about it is worthy. Though I'm half expecting my pebble to look like that in a few years.

When I shopped it at my PB's showroom, they claimed their demo pool of pebble was 15 years old, and it looked absolutely perfect. Which is what sold me on it in the first place. So either they lied about the age of their pools, or mine has reacted differently. I have a call into my PB to come have a look. That was a month or two ago. Mine is not eager to please. My color variance is pretty vague right now, I'm waiting a bit until it gets more obvious. I'm sure they'll say "Yep, we warned you about that." and walk. I have a five-year warranty, but who knows what that means. I hope your experience is better.

But mine is knockoff, not PebbleTec. I think you're sitting pretty if yours is the real deal.

If it was my multi-thousand dollar issue, I would be sorely tempted to give PebbleTec a call. Just play dumb, as in "I have new PebbleSheen. It doesn't look like I thought it would. Should I talk to someone about that?" You don't want to end-run your PB, necessarily, but, personally, I'd want to establish some sort of "paper trail" with PebbleTec so no one could later claim any warranty shenanigans (like... I don't know... didn't register, didn't fill out this form or that, didn't complain in time, whatever). It's a lot of money, and as long as you don't physically do anything to your pebble just now, I don't see how a phone call, or some sort of a warranty claim, directly with PebbleTec, could hurt your case.

I'm pretty anti-pool-pro just now, as I've had a real bad experience with a PB, so take that advice with a grain of salt...

 

[onBalance]

I think Dirk has provided some good advice. This "dark" discoloration problem is more rare than other color problems. Usually, color jobs turn whitish.
It could possibly be that there was a problem with mixing of the color pigment. Or perhaps the acid wash wasn't done properly
But it certainly wasn't caused by improper water chemistry or balancing.
It will be best to allow the plaster to cure and harden for at least a month before anything is tried on it.
My guess is that the PB will make good on this.

 

[mlcarrigg]

During the application, the crew had their supply hose seize up... they had what seemed to be a dozen guys out by the truck using hammers or mallets trying to break up the "clog" in the hose. there was a lot of shouting back and forth that i couldn't make out because I dont speak spanish. Maybe this had something to do with these dark spots. I am willing to wait 30 days for sure... but after 6 days I dont see any improvements and my water chemistry is all within normal range (except no CYA and no chlorine yet).

The PB is licensed with Pebble Tec and this was a legitimate pebble sheen product/install. I'm hoping the PB or Pebble stands behind this job if it doesn't resolve itself. I will post any updates as they come.

 

[Dirk]

m,

Sounds like you're sittin' pretty. Sorry you have to go through this, but it happens (why, at this point, doesn't really matter), and it'll get resolved.

Just FYI: my chlorine went in on Day 3, along with CYA, per the NPT startup instructions I was given. Not sayin' to dump in chlorine, defer to your PB, just sayin' maybe ask him about it. I've read here on TFP that dealing with algae on a brand new surface is not good. You don't want to have to SLAM new plaster. One could argue that the surface is gonna get replaced, so it doesn't matter, but we don't know that yet, and that wouldn't address algae growing everywhere else (filter, skimmer, light housing, etc). You want your pool to be sanitized, and I'd push for that as soon as the PB allows, if it were my pool...

 

[muffin_dad]

I had a similar issue - the problem is that the barely trained 19 year old kid that shows up to do the acid wash doesn't evenly apply it. My pool has a deep end too and what I saw was the acid pooling around the drains, then leaving a ring around the bottom.

To me, acid application is one of the most critical steps in the process and leaving it to a barely skilled individual (in my case) is not a very smart thing to do as a pool builder.

 

[Dirk]

Acid washing ruined my plaster, and worse at the bottom where it pooled without being properly neutralized. Too many "pros" do not give acid washing the care and respect it requires, for sure. That definitely could have been it.

 

[mlcarrigg]

If the culprit is indeed a pool of acid from the washing, is there any way they can fix it? You can see from line of my pics that during the acid there was a pool of water or acid that sat at the bottom and looks to be the root of the problem to me...

 

[Dirk]

If the culprit is indeed a pool of acid from the washing, is there any way they can fix it? You can see from line of my pics that during the acid there was a pool of water or acid that sat at the bottom and looks to be the root of the problem to me...

Well, not sure... but I burned my new pebble with a mis-guided addition of diluted CYA, while the pool was full of water. It only laid on the bottom for a few moments. That stain is still there six months later, so if that's a muriatic acid burn, it's not just going to fade a way, I'd guess.

And if evening it out with another acid wash is something they'd offer, I wouldn't have it. An acid wash takes plaster off the surface. That's how it does what it does. Which logic would dictate that that's x amount of plaster you will be missing some day, in terms of how long your surface is going to last. So that puts you right back to getting less than you paid for, to make up for their error.

Frankly, that's probably all fantasy. I don't see how even the most highly skilled "acid washer" could control it enough to even out blotches. Not to a "like new" appearance, anyway. He'd have to remove quite a layer to get it to all look even, which I'm not even sure could be done with a plaster finish that didn't have embedded pebble in it, let alone one that does.

This from my stone guy that would know (I'm paraphrasing): "diluting" acid with water is not really what's going on. It's merely being distributed. The only way to get acid to stop "doing its thing" is to neutralize it (baking soda, ammonia, etc). Otherwise it's still "active." Matt once corrected me on that terminology, and I probably still have it wrong, but the gist of it is: acid in even a big pool of water like that at the bottom of your pool can still wreak havoc on plaster. I have the chipped out pieces left over from my remodel that prove it. My acid wash took the cream coat right off and ate through 1/8-1/4" of the underlying plaster, all under a big puddle the size of the one you had!

 

[onBalance]

Unfortunately it is very unlikely that the darker areas will fade or disappear, ever.
And if by chance acid washing removes it, that would not be the proper way to fix it, as has been mentioned previously.

 

[mlcarrigg]

Update: My pool builder came out today along with a Pebbletec representative. They both agreed that something went wrong during install. During the install, the supply hose clogged and that forced them to have to make an extra 1/2 batch to finish the pool (the deep end). Their theory is that when they made this extra batch, the person mixing the batch must have accidentally added an extra bag of black rocks (so the mix was wrong). The builder has been in business 15+ years and said this was the first time they had a mistake of this nature. They said the best course of action is to drain the pool and chip out the affected areas (the entire deep end of the pool) and reapply Pebbletec in that area. The Pebble representative said this was the proper method and that i will not ever see the difference between the new and old area, and that it will blend with the rest of the pool. I can only assume this is the proper way to go forward given the Pebble quality control rep assured me it would look great.

Definitely a bummer to have to do this but at least we figured out what the issue was, and they are standing behind their work.

 

[Dirk]

Update: My pool builder came out today along with a Pebbletec representative. They both agreed that something went wrong during install. During the install, the supply hose clogged and that forced them to have to make an extra 1/2 batch to finish the pool (the deep end). Their theory is that when they made this extra batch, the person mixing the batch must have accidentally added an extra bag of black rocks (so the mix was wrong). The builder has been in business 15+ years and said this was the first time they had a mistake of this nature. They said the best course of action is to drain the pool and chip out the affected areas (the entire deep end of the pool) and reapply Pebbletec in that area. The Pebble representative said this was the proper method and that i will not ever see the difference between the new and old area, and that it will blend with the rest of the pool. I can only assume this is the proper way to go forward given the Pebble quality control rep assured me it would look great.

Definitely a bummer to have to do this but at least we figured out what the issue was, and they are standing behind their work.

Congrat's on PT and PB standing behind this. That's great news!

Devil's advocate?

If it were me, I'd love to hear a disinterested third party confirm this is a proper fix. It probably is. But I wouldn't be so sure the PB and the Rep's "best interest" are exclusive of each other. I don't know how their relationship works. Is this some sort of contractual shared repair expense? In which case they'd both be looking for the cheapest fix? Or is the Rep really the pool owner's advocate?

If the color match satisfies you, then fine. Done deal in that regard. But can a plaster patch properly seal to existing plaster when applied weeks apart like this? That'd be my main concern. The shell isn't waterproof, only the plaster is. Will that seam compromise that? Can it later crack there, and start leaking? That's the kind of thing that might not reveal itself until well after the warranty expires.

Sorry, don't mean to rain on your good news, just asking some questions that'd I'd want answered if it were my pool...

 

[mark111]

I just saw your PM and am happy to talk. I did have a similar issue that was fixed with heating the dark area with a torch. It looks like you have a similar white ring around the dark area, like I did. I suspect it might be a hydration stain and not simply too many black pebbles. You could take a high resolution picture of the dark next to the normal area and blow up and count the number of black pebbles per identical area. I would ask the plaster installer about torching. If they are planning on chipping out, it might be something to try first, they have to drain the pool either way.

 

[mlcarrigg]

Just to update the situation.... on the advice of the pebbletec quality control rep, my pool contractor drained the pool, chipped out the affected areas (the entire deep end - bottom only, not walls), and reapplied pebble in the area that had been chipped out. My biggest concern was whether or not the "patch" would blend in and the pebble representative assured me it would. To make a long story short, they finished, and filled the pool and it looked terrible... possibly worse than the original job. The good news here is that my contractor came to look and agreed with me that it looked unacceptable. Without flinching he said they needed to demo all of the new pebble and re-apply. They have started the process already and by the end of next week this whole saga should be behind me and ultimately my pool will be done about 45 days later than it should have been. All in all i am more than happy with the way my contractor has handled this. The process was stressful (because i feared the contractor would run away from the problem) but things happen during construction, and all you can really ask for is someone that will stand behind their work.

 

[Dirk]

This is fantastic news. And frankly, I'm thrilled for you that this "patch job" looked bad enough that the PB decided to replace the entire surface. I really can't wrap my head around how this could have worked, and why they would have bothered to try. And even if it had solved for the aesthetic issue, I would never have believed that it could hold up to the years as well as an application done all at the same time. Glad to hear it's going to be fixed correctly!

 

[riley00dog]

Hat is an excellent outcome! I would have been stressed too. So good that your pb cares enough to fix the problem.

 

[LeighHop]

Sorry for the trouble but glad you got resolution and nice to hear the update.