Actually if you did a little re plumbing, you could do away with the second pump and run everything thru one. But that's a different story than what we are talking about here.
first off, why do you have a garden hose connected to your pump return line?
(2) the filter pump next to the filter is that the 2h.p. 2 speed motor you described
(3) you need to replace the filter gauge or remove that one and verify it is not plugged up ,and that the needle falls to zero when pump is off
(4)when you mention the difference between lines when isolated to spa vs pool, you said the isolated spa suction line has noticeable air or that you pull air is this difference noticed when looking through the clear pump lid? or something you noticed at the pool or spa itself from a return line? also when you say it pulls air,do you mean after line is isolated (and i will assume you are making the observation when viewing through the clear pump lid ) what had been a fully involved pump basket area when seen through pump lid, (meaning water completely filled entire pump basket to the top of the lid and had minimal air under lid when isolated on pool side) but when isolated to spa line you described it pulled air, did you mean air was entering in so fast that the pump pressure fell off so to speak, and what had been a full basket area with water movement on pool side, now has pulled air to the point the pump loses prime and maybe a slight trickle tries to fall out of the inlet pipe in front of pump as viewed through lid into the pump basket ,indicating a struggle to regain prime,
or do you mean it pulls air and that you mean the inside of the lid basically has about the same volume amount of water,only there are more air bubbles swirling around top of basket area compared to pool side,and also does the valve change from pool to spa line make the pump louder on spa side when you notice the additional pull of air
Spa drains are fine, new in fact.are the floor spa drain grates in place,complete,unbroken, or are they broken, missing,or only partially able to cover the opening
and have you modified any thing prior to noticing this current problem, im assuming this is fairly recent ,and up until you started to notice something not right,everything before this happened had worked when you isolated the spa to heat it and if you wanted to use it later it still worked fine, compared to what you describe as only able to use spa once a day,and experiencing heater malfunction later in the eve when trying to use spa at night as usual but now no heat, which has progressively gotten to where now heater will not come on at all on spa side give me a better time line of maybe how everything had functioned for years without any problem until two weeks ago when this or that began or maybe how it really never was consistent but rather
also i want you to tell me the filter pressure when pool is isolated from spa,the normal pool side as you put it when you describe no air pull like spa side,then isolate the spa side,and tell me the pressure on the filter there to...lets start with these things 1st, before you resort to digging holes n stuff
i said "appears" and "could" which indicate uncertainty as to what may, or may not be still connected to
just an observation based on the type of plumbing configuration thats in place which was common to a type of cleaner that mostly swam around the pool with a whip attachment that has become discontinued and obsolete technology popular in the 70's-early 80'sthe "jandy porpoise" usually polaris pressure cleaners utilize a booster pump independent of the pool equipment, your connection relies on distributing water normally meant to go through the filter 1st, right back to the cleaner instead , im sure a portion of the water may go through the filter, but as it looks to me knowing what i know now,you only run the cleaner randomly because it involves having to turn the jandy valve to send pressure to the cleaner manually,to operate it,if you left the cleaner on 24-7 you would never filter your water,because the resistance of travel is less having to pass through cleaner line and would seek the path of the cleaner line, so although it it may work as you say,it is not the proper way a polaris pressure cleaner was designed ,that much i do know,somebody more or less retroed the polaris to operate on the obsolete system design of the 70s theres a reason why pressure cleaner technology that shared pressure with the pools filtration system became obsolete, it was the ineficient way that one had to sacrafice for the other either your gonna run the cleaner and bypass the filter, or your going to filter the water and not run the cleaner,no brainer to see why it was phased out
i have been a repair tech in phoenix az for 25 years i dont clean pools and do a few repairs on the weekends maybe, i do only repair and remodel work 40 plus hours a week in case i have not pointed that out yet,i am trying to help you here so understand when i send a picture to you that says the valves are on the suction side although they will work and until i pointed this out to you,would never had known that they are not plumbed correctly,period end of story
each of the 3 lines to the right of the spa line, should have each have there own two way valve,not the 3 way valve configuration that exists now ideally you would like to have the ability to shut off or turn on or regulate distribution of suction to maximize the particular device that may require maximum suction like the skimmer if a lot of leafs blown into the pool ,so you would look at the 3 lines and know to turn the pool drain off,and turn the other line off (not certain what it controls) and leaving the skimmer wide open to skim the top of the water surface
by the way is there a wier door in skimmer throat ? if not you would be wise to install one, the little door that flops around in the throat alot of skimmers have missing or broken doors and the difference is like night aNd day when it has the door as far as how effective it is at skimming the surface of debris.
normally i would have looked at the pool to see a cleaner hooked up but i cant do that here,this is why i have been asking all these questions this has become my pet project so, its not like i give my knowledge of swimming pools away to everyone, and sit on the computer all day, i registered on this site the other day out of boredom everything i have said or illistrated during our correspondance so far has the advantage of being accurate info that is spot on, my approach to swimming pool repair also has the sting of having to enlighten homeowners as to the true state of disrepair or improper work done by other unqualified butchers that are trying to learn this business by f*cking up the pools of unsuspecting trusting homeowners that placed there confidence in there ability to solve there problem, before my involvement
i dont have a crystal ball here, while your cleaner will work without the booster pump, it is doing so by turning the pool pump into its booster pump, how much distribution of water does the cleaner require? does the valve have to bypass the filter completely to provide enough pressure to run the cleaner, or is that why you have the two speed 2h.p. monster for a filter pump hi speed for cleaner pressure?
lo speed for filtraion and heating spa? its unusual to say the least to have a 2 h.p.2 speed when you have a jet pump thats 2 hp im curious with what your understanding
is for the reason to have it that way, or am i on the right track about the cleaner having to do with the set up this way a more common h.p. for the filter motor when a jet pump exist would be a single speed 1 h.p. the pool at my home has a spa, but i dont have the jet pump, it shares a 1.5 h.p. motor for both which im not crazy about , overkill for circulation purposes which 90% of motor run time is used for, i have thought about 2speed or variable speed upgrade for cost savings on electric bill, so what way do you utilize the 2 speed for?
just curious without having the ability to be there to see for myself as far as the cleaner line is concerned,some of my remodel projects on older pools that had 1.5 inch cleaner pressure lines, i would convert to a dedicated suction line, and be able to run a suction cleaner,clever little trick, anyway sounds like we got off on a bad foot of sorts here, you are the only one i have run into that still uses that type of way to run a cleaner in years, if your pressure line could be converted to suction what would you think about that? anyway just trying to help you with this problem
Getting back to the original problem...
Gilbee,
I think that maybe you could run the system in spa mode (no heat, no jets) for a period of time equivalent to the time it takes to heat the spa, plus the time it takes till the heater is needed again. When you first start this procedure, note the water level in the spa. When you are at the end of this "test" note the water level again (checking for a leak). Within this time, confirm that the pump is primed and moving water. If it quits moving water at some point, note the time that it ran before this occurred. If your pump runs a certain amount of time, then looses prime, you have some sort of leak in the suction line. Sometimes with suction line leaks, when the plumbing is idle, water leaks out of the plumbing into the surrounding area. When the plumbing comes under suction again, that water is drawn in through the leak. Once all the water has been drawn in from the surrounding area, air begins to be drawn in, killing the prime of the pump. The time it takes to do this would be different for every case/pool. This may be why it runs ok for a period of time, then looses prime.
let me just say that here in phoenix we have pools everywhere and the last time i worked on a pool that had a pressure cleaner that shared the filter pump, 1988 maybe, they were called jandy porpoise, or jandy vac, etc. i have never seen in 25 years of doing pool repairs anything more useless,worthless,or ineffective than this which at the time was the industry standard, and quite common to see on many pools, until suction cleaner technology began to revolutionize the industry, instantly rendering pressure cleaner technology obsolete especially as it applies to the shared system like yours and within a few years they were gone in the phoenix area, i really cant think of any other pool related innovations that has had the positive impact on the way the public looked at pool ownership than suction technology.the fact you make the system seem so common place and relevant is mind blowing to me, because in phoenix it would be like some artifact that was dug up, and put on display somewhere, like a model t, im so intrigued now,i plan on seeing how many of those polaris cleaners,if any are available at my wholesalers. i had know way of knowing much about anything beyond what i can see in your pics, but if what you describe regarding prime loss when spa side is isolated is pretty fast, at this point it cant hurt to see if there is some kind of water loss by performing a simple static leak test, first if you have any automatic fill valve that maintains pool water level turn it off(auto fills are very common on pools here) disregard that step if you maintain water level with hose manually, etc. next place a piece of tape to mark where the pool water level is currently at and place a piece at the spa where its level is, plan on leaving pump off for a day or two, hopefully rain is not forcast either, then watch the level where tape is,alot of times suction lines will not show water leaks sitting idle during static test because it is the vacuum in the line when pump is on that sucks air through any crack that introduces air but the nature of suction lines are not to leak water, only air you might get lucky due to the severity in how loss of prime occurs so fast, indicating a leak in suction line that will be big enough to actually leak water, if thats the case you could notice a difference in water level on spa tape that is lower, but then you have to also look at tape on pool if the tape on spa overnight lets say is an inch below tape and the pool is still at the same level of tape then you may have determined that it may indeed be leaking afterall but if both levels are still the same it doesnt mean the line is not leaking,just that it wont leak when sitting , anyway you get the idea i will check back but if you havent responded i will stick a fork in it and consider it done good luck then
Even back then (when your pool was built), pool builders were aware of the chances of entrapment. Those two drains you have that supply the filter and the jet pump could very well be tied together in the wall/floor. You will find out soon enough when your leak detector pressure tests the spa suction...
That just made me think of something. Did you do the test i was suggesting? Running the pump without the jet pump running? If your pump runs without a problem with the jet pump off, i may know why.
If the suction lines were tied together, and the jet pump motor was of greater HP than the filter, there could have been a scenario where one of the main drain lines were obscured enough to where the greater HP would rob all the available water, and actually cause the lesser HP to loose prime. While the hypothesis is very thin, i have seen it...
...once.