Yep, it sounds like you are working your way into this very well. At this rate you'll have it down in no time. Pretty cool isn't it?
Has anyone on here actually worked at a pool store?
- Thread starter ITR
- Start date
Okay. So TA is back up to 60. I might add more baking soda later tonight, but I wanted to get the FC up so I just added that and will check later tonight. Thanks again for all the help. Now, if the PB can just get the calcium build up taken care of...
Double check it today before making a new addition of soda. Just incase more mixing time gives you a different reading. May not, but always best to be sure.
I checked again tonight and the TA is back up to 110 after adding another 64 oz box of baking soda. pH also rose overnight, so I added some acid to bring it back down. Getting the hang of all these levers to pull...thanks primarily to you guys. I couldn't do this without you!
I ran some things through the pool calc and to drop my CH down to 300 I would have to remove 56% of my water (fill water is CH 200). Granted this would also help drop my CYA, but I'm not going to do it since a few have said the low 400s are fine and I'm now off trichlor, but I am starting to wonder if this is what has led to the scale issue and might help resolve it. The pool is beautiful...except for the calcium build up that looks like my shower door.
I ran some things through the pool calc and to drop my CH down to 300 I would have to remove 56% of my water (fill water is CH 200). Granted this would also help drop my CYA, but I'm not going to do it since a few have said the low 400s are fine and I'm now off trichlor, but I am starting to wonder if this is what has led to the scale issue and might help resolve it. The pool is beautiful...except for the calcium build up that looks like my shower door.
Don't make any more soda additions. These rapid swings aren't good in most water treatment scenarios. Focus on pH and FC right now, and let things level out. With scale and scaling tendency you don't want the TA any higher. Watch the pH as it will tend to rise faster at the higher TA. Calcium+TA+pH= scale. Oversimplified but it's true. Let things settle down for a while, but monitor and adjust pH carefully. Your CH Level is manageable in terms of scale prevention. It's really great to see you working on this, but you don't want to be on a roller coaster ride.
Thank you, Patrick. Agreed. Definitely don't want to be on a roller coaster ride. I will retake pH levels tonight and focus on that for right now. Since it is Wednesday, I believe TA, FC, CYA, and CH will remain steady enough at this point that I can concentrate on the pH until this weekend's full test readings.
Now, any self-maintenance I can do to remove the scale? I would use PlastiX or LCR on the shower...but I know that isn't the right answer for the pool. At this point I have a few areas that have seeped calcium (looks like calcium tear drops) and then a general area about 2x3' near the drain. If I could get rid of that it would make me (and the better half) incredibly happy.
Actually, let me retract the above question until the PB comes out next Wednesday. I don't want anything I do to impede their work or potentially damage the pool.
Thanks again for all the help!
Now, any self-maintenance I can do to remove the scale? I would use PlastiX or LCR on the shower...but I know that isn't the right answer for the pool.
At this point I have a few areas that have seeped calcium (looks like calcium tear drops) and then a general area about 2x3' near the drain. If I could get rid of that it would make me (and the better half) incredibly happy.Actually, let me retract the above question until the PB comes out next Wednesday. I don't want anything I do to impede their work or potentially damage the pool.
Thanks again for all the help!
A couple of suggestions to ensure your testing is as accurate and repeatable as possible.
- If you don't already have one, definitely purchase a SpeedStir, magnetic stirrer. The SpeedStir is universally acclaimed by members of this forum, and that's for a very good reason. After working with a SpeedStir for a while, you quickly realize how poor hand agitation can be, especially for TA and CH tests. You really need good mixing on those tests to "force" the color changes to happen within a normal drop pace. With mechanical agitation I've found it's way too easy to add extra drops because insufficient agitation slows the color change.
- As I mentioned above, the SpeedStir makes sure the mixing is at a pace that keeps up with your drop additions. Especially for the CH test, make sure you slow down your drops a little as you approach what you believe will be your final number. When you have high CH, there's a tendency to speed up your drop pace because there's so many drops to add. The alernate 10cc test is a good way of saving on reagents and quickens the overall test time.
Cynical thought. If I were a pool builder who knew the variability and inaccuracies of pool store testing, it would be to my potential benifit to have the customer send me reports that might document poor pool care, even if in reality, the care was perfect; because when push comes to shove, those documents could be used against the pool owner. On the other hand, as others have suggested, it wouldn't be too hard to prove inaccurate pool store testing by comparison sampling at multiple pool stores. If it was me, and because the PB has unilaterally imposed pool store testing, I'd perform and present him with the multiple store comparison sample testing now, rather than later.
- If you don't already have one, definitely purchase a SpeedStir, magnetic stirrer. The SpeedStir is universally acclaimed by members of this forum, and that's for a very good reason. After working with a SpeedStir for a while, you quickly realize how poor hand agitation can be, especially for TA and CH tests. You really need good mixing on those tests to "force" the color changes to happen within a normal drop pace. With mechanical agitation I've found it's way too easy to add extra drops because insufficient agitation slows the color change.
- As I mentioned above, the SpeedStir makes sure the mixing is at a pace that keeps up with your drop additions. Especially for the CH test, make sure you slow down your drops a little as you approach what you believe will be your final number. When you have high CH, there's a tendency to speed up your drop pace because there's so many drops to add. The alernate 10cc test is a good way of saving on reagents and quickens the overall test time.
Cynical thought. If I were a pool builder who knew the variability and inaccuracies of pool store testing, it would be to my potential benifit to have the customer send me reports that might document poor pool care, even if in reality, the care was perfect; because when push comes to shove, those documents could be used against the pool owner. On the other hand, as others have suggested, it wouldn't be too hard to prove inaccurate pool store testing by comparison sampling at multiple pool stores. If it was me, and because the PB has unilaterally imposed pool store testing, I'd perform and present him with the multiple store comparison sample testing now, rather than later.
Since the builder is having you remove scale, you don't want your TA, CH or pH to get high. He's having you lower the pH, but that's why I asked what he expected for the TA target. For sure, don't increase TA any more. You really didn't want it above 80 ppm. With acid additions over time it may drop.
Thanks, chemgeek. Today the pH was down to 7.2 again after being up last night and adding acid. I will continue to monitor. One thing I have noticed, the PB-provided test kit is from Tropic-something-or-other has a different colored pH scale (much more muted colors...almost looks sun-faded) than the Taylor K1000 that came with the tf100. I had been using the PB kit for pH and the TF100 for the rest...but today I used the TF100 for pH too. So much easier to read. I think I need to ditch the Topic-whatever kit the PB provided completely.
As for the SpeedStir...I agree. I almost went nuts before I got it due to my lack of hand coordination.
Per PB: "80 to 120 if Ph at 7.2 should be at 80. If PH climbs to 7.6 alk 110. "
As for the SpeedStir...I agree. I almost went nuts before I got it due to my lack of hand coordination.
Per PB: "80 to 120 if Ph at 7.2 should be at 80. If PH climbs to 7.6 alk 110. "
That K-1000 included in the TF-100 is pricier than most but we chose it for just the reason you describe......we think it is a much better comparator tube than most, if not all, the others.
You guys did good! Can I still use the phenol red the came with the other kit or should I ditch the whole thing?
Can I still use the phenol red the came with the other kit or should I ditch the whole thing?
Here's an update with today's readings:
FC: 6.0
CC: 0
pH: 7.2 (remember, the PB wants the pH low to try to break up the calcium)
TA: 80
CH: 400
CYA: 60
Water Temp: 65
Everything seems to be "in check" to me. Any feedback or anything that looks like it might be adjusted?
FC: 6.0
CC: 0
pH: 7.2 (remember, the PB wants the pH low to try to break up the calcium)
TA: 80
CH: 400
CYA: 60
Water Temp: 65
Everything seems to be "in check" to me. Any feedback or anything that looks like it might be adjusted?
Curious, what happened with the PB insisting on pool store results? As for your results....
You'll fight to keep it there, but I would keep the pH down low like that if it was mine in that situation.
You'll fight to keep it there, but I would keep the pH down low like that if it was mine in that situation.
Haven't really addressed that part yet. They came out to look at the issue today (and address some other punch list items) and agreed it needs to be taken care of. They are going to have the interior sub come out, drain the pool, acid wash and then rebalance before turn over. I'm very happy they agreed and that it will be taken care of. Definitely added a few points to their reputation in my mind!
Wow, sounds like he wants you to be happy. Test their water balancing as this goes on. I would certainly do that to be on top of things.
As Patrick eluded to, I would keep a close eye on what they do to "balance" the pool as it may not be what we would recommend, but you do have to keep the warranty people happy.
Okay....so I'm back after the acid wash and refill. Here are my numbers as of this morning:
FC: 0
CC: 0 (my assumption is that he did not add any chlorine during re-startup)
pH: 8.2+ (more bright red than 8.2)
CH: 50
TA: 140
CYA: 0 (did not test since there is no chlorine)
CSI: .15
Water Temp: 70
So most importantly I dumped half a gallon of acid in and will retest tonight. Not sure why the pH was so high. Since the pool had been finished for two months, I would have thought the plaster would have mostly cured. Do you think the acid wash restarted the plaster curing process? Looking for ideas on this one.
My assumption is that he did not add any Chlorine probably thinking the trichlor would take care of it...but since there were no trichlor in the "auto chlorinator" that's why there is zero CC and FC. I added three trichlor pucks to the auto chlorinator and will retest tonight.
Any feedback? I am going to start brushing twice a day again and hopefully get everything rebalanced this weekend....but I'm looking for suggestions from those who have been following this process. I definitely don't want to have the same issues I had before and the high pH is freaking me out.
FC: 0
CC: 0 (my assumption is that he did not add any chlorine during re-startup)
pH: 8.2+ (more bright red than 8.2)
CH: 50
TA: 140
CYA: 0 (did not test since there is no chlorine)
CSI: .15
Water Temp: 70
So most importantly I dumped half a gallon of acid in and will retest tonight. Not sure why the pH was so high. Since the pool had been finished for two months, I would have thought the plaster would have mostly cured. Do you think the acid wash restarted the plaster curing process? Looking for ideas on this one.
My assumption is that he did not add any Chlorine probably thinking the trichlor would take care of it...but since there were no trichlor in the "auto chlorinator" that's why there is zero CC and FC. I added three trichlor pucks to the auto chlorinator and will retest tonight.
Any feedback? I am going to start brushing twice a day again and hopefully get everything rebalanced this weekend....but I'm looking for suggestions from those who have been following this process. I definitely don't want to have the same issues I had before and the high pH is freaking me out.
pH is lower and I have added a bit of bleach to correct the FC level...so I am getting things back on track.
Also, do I need to worry about CH being as low as 50 with an IGP pool? It was higher (400+) before the refill and now at 50 (tested twice) it seems very low. Should I wait a few days for things to even out or should I go to the store and get some Calcium Chloride? I know you guys recommended not to have huge swings, but I definitely don't want the plaster to be effected by low CH.
Also, do I need to worry about CH being as low as 50 with an IGP pool? It was higher (400+) before the refill and now at 50 (tested twice) it seems very low. Should I wait a few days for things to even out or should I go to the store and get some Calcium Chloride? I know you guys recommended not to have huge swings, but I definitely don't want the plaster to be effected by low CH.