I have a pentair 420 cartridge filter. I'm pretty sure my filters do not require DE, but they look just like yours. What's the difference?
Guts of QuadDE Filter
- Thread starter JoyfulNoise
- Start date
- May 23, 2015
- 24,447
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The internal design of the filters is very similar. However, the cartridges are completely different. The Quad cartridges have far fewer pleats than a standard cartridge filter element. As well, the Quad cartridges are made out of a different material.
Hi. We have really old normal filters that need replacing. Would you recommend getting a quad DE filter system instead? What are the benefits over standard cartridge filters? Thank you!
- May 23, 2015
- 24,447
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Not entirely sure what you mean by "normal" filters. Perhaps you can take a picture of what you have and post a new thread in the Equipment sub-forum and ask for comments and suggestions? Starting your own thread is the best way to get lots of opinions and suggestions. Also, if you update your signature with all of your pool specs and equipment, folks can help you better.
Thank you. We are new to pools and dealing with the one that came with the house. I meant to say standard cartridge filters. We have 4 of them. I will try to take photos of the equipment.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,447
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Season 5 Update
So this is a nightmare scenario .... my pool is a cloudy DE mess :-(
I got a very late start to my pool season and tore down my filter on Monday (2 days ago). The filter had gone more than a year with no backwashing and the pressure was up 2.5 psi over original clean pressure. So I did my usual tear down and clean out. However, upon putting the filter back together and charging it up with DE, several mistakes/mishaps occurred -
1. Even though I knowingly used my handy orange 1 lbs DE scoop, I read the stupid label on the Leslie's DE bag which stated that quart measures are only 1/2 pound and so I used almost 2X the amount of DE I was supposed to. Luckily I only charge to 80% of the rated amount but it was still way too much DE....which leads me to...
2. What the heck is up with this Leslie's brand DE?? I'm used to stuff that comes out of the bag dry as chalk and billows up into a dust cloud if you look at it sideways. This Leslie's stuff is treated somehow to make is not do that...it's almost like moist flour rather than chalky dust. The bag says "pool grade diatomaceous earth" so I know it's DE, but it's weird. I used to get DE from Patio Pools (because they sold it in convenient 10lbs bags) but they closed the store near me and I bought the Leslie's stuff last year (24lbs bag). Never Again.
3. Something wasn't sealed up right or tightened down in the filter as I blew out most of the DE into the pool. Welp, opened up the filter, saw nothing wrong, but basically redid everything. I even took off the lower the manifold and lubed up the o-ring down there as well as stretched the steel spring that the lid sits on to make sure the top manifold had more force on it. Sealed it all back up and then started manually vacuuming my pool :-(
4. Backwash plunger valve leak....ugh. So, my fault here as I have never really touched the plunger valve at all since install. Turns out, it's a good idea to open it up, pull out all the o-rings, replace any that are compressed and lube the baby up. So, new o-ring kit (~$12 @ Leslies...grrr...). Leak solved (wish I took pictures but it's not that hard to figure out.
5. Air relief valve leak....another trip to Leslie's for a new air relief valve. Leslie's price, about $42. Price I paid 2 years ago on Amazon with FREE shipping and SAME-DAY delivery, $28. Grrrr....Leslie's got more of my money. So it looks like I'm getting about 2 years out of these air release valves as the plastic housing where the pressure gauge screws into cracks and leaks. And NO, I am not over tightening the male brass pressure gauge into the plastic female threaded opening...just a poor design and not enough reinforcement around that area.
So now my pool is a giant clouded mess and I've been vacuuming and brushing for a day and half. I'm finally able to see the deep end covers fairly well and brushing simply raises small clouds of DE here and there. As of tonight, Mr. T will be going into the pool to vacuum up any remaining DE. The filter is running 24/7 on slow speed and then normal pool speeds during the day. I've raised the day time speeds to above 2000RPM to get higher turnover rates for more filtration. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.....and tonight I will do an OCLT just to make sure I'm good on the chemistry.
I have decided that when this filter needs replacement (either with a cracked lid or when the internal quad cartridges go), my next filter will be a Clean & Clear cartridge filter....no more DE for me.
So this is a nightmare scenario .... my pool is a cloudy DE mess :-(
I got a very late start to my pool season and tore down my filter on Monday (2 days ago). The filter had gone more than a year with no backwashing and the pressure was up 2.5 psi over original clean pressure. So I did my usual tear down and clean out. However, upon putting the filter back together and charging it up with DE, several mistakes/mishaps occurred -
1. Even though I knowingly used my handy orange 1 lbs DE scoop, I read the stupid label on the Leslie's DE bag which stated that quart measures are only 1/2 pound and so I used almost 2X the amount of DE I was supposed to. Luckily I only charge to 80% of the rated amount but it was still way too much DE....which leads me to...
2. What the heck is up with this Leslie's brand DE?? I'm used to stuff that comes out of the bag dry as chalk and billows up into a dust cloud if you look at it sideways. This Leslie's stuff is treated somehow to make is not do that...it's almost like moist flour rather than chalky dust. The bag says "pool grade diatomaceous earth" so I know it's DE, but it's weird. I used to get DE from Patio Pools (because they sold it in convenient 10lbs bags) but they closed the store near me and I bought the Leslie's stuff last year (24lbs bag). Never Again.
3. Something wasn't sealed up right or tightened down in the filter as I blew out most of the DE into the pool. Welp, opened up the filter, saw nothing wrong, but basically redid everything. I even took off the lower the manifold and lubed up the o-ring down there as well as stretched the steel spring that the lid sits on to make sure the top manifold had more force on it. Sealed it all back up and then started manually vacuuming my pool :-(
4. Backwash plunger valve leak....ugh. So, my fault here as I have never really touched the plunger valve at all since install. Turns out, it's a good idea to open it up, pull out all the o-rings, replace any that are compressed and lube the baby up. So, new o-ring kit (~$12 @ Leslies...grrr...). Leak solved (wish I took pictures but it's not that hard to figure out.
5. Air relief valve leak....another trip to Leslie's for a new air relief valve. Leslie's price, about $42. Price I paid 2 years ago on Amazon with FREE shipping and SAME-DAY delivery, $28. Grrrr....Leslie's got more of my money. So it looks like I'm getting about 2 years out of these air release valves as the plastic housing where the pressure gauge screws into cracks and leaks. And NO, I am not over tightening the male brass pressure gauge into the plastic female threaded opening...just a poor design and not enough reinforcement around that area.
So now my pool is a giant clouded mess and I've been vacuuming and brushing for a day and half. I'm finally able to see the deep end covers fairly well and brushing simply raises small clouds of DE here and there. As of tonight, Mr. T will be going into the pool to vacuum up any remaining DE. The filter is running 24/7 on slow speed and then normal pool speeds during the day. I've raised the day time speeds to above 2000RPM to get higher turnover rates for more filtration. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.....and tonight I will do an OCLT just to make sure I'm good on the chemistry.
I have decided that when this filter needs replacement (either with a cracked lid or when the internal quad cartridges go), my next filter will be a Clean & Clear cartridge filter....no more DE for me.
Matt,
I found the exact issue with my CCP520... The plastic "nut" where the gauge screws in was cracked.. I'm sure it was cracked when I took it off, but I did not see it until I installed the new gauge... I glued the very small crack and ordered a new relief valve.. I plan to replace it this weekend.
I was not happy when they told me I could not have a DE filter at my house unless it was plumbed into the sewer line, which would have cost too much.. But, now that I have used the cartridge filter, I like it. It takes about the same amount of time to clean, as it does to clean and recharge a DE filter, but you don't have to worry about the DE, and there is backwash valve to fail... but best of all there is no chance of having to post a "...nightmare scenario .... my pool is a cloudy DE mess" story...
Thanks,
Jim R.
My feelings have become the same toward the DE ... not worth the hassle. There is just a mess of white DE all over out back near the pool equipment during due to my post-winter cleanup. I too will be going to cartridge when I need to replace the filter.
The top cap on mine has a small leak when the pressure gets too high (fine now that the algae is not clogging things up), but I could not figure out how to get the cap off to see if there is an o-ring and to lube it up.
Then I found my multi-port was slowly leaking out to my backwash line. Not enough to see at the end of the line which is down in a hole out back, but I keep a union fitting on it open so it drips there. Had to pull it apart, pull out the spider gasket and lube it up good. Got the leak to stop on filter mode and basically plan to not move that valve any more ... just tear it down when I need to.
I hope the eventual removal of the multi-port and switch to cartridge will lower the head loss enough to bump my flow rate up a bit ... to make the solar more efficient and give me more buffer on the SWG flow switch on low speed.
The top cap on mine has a small leak when the pressure gets too high (fine now that the algae is not clogging things up), but I could not figure out how to get the cap off to see if there is an o-ring and to lube it up.
Then I found my multi-port was slowly leaking out to my backwash line. Not enough to see at the end of the line which is down in a hole out back, but I keep a union fitting on it open so it drips there. Had to pull it apart, pull out the spider gasket and lube it up good. Got the leak to stop on filter mode and basically plan to not move that valve any more ... just tear it down when I need to.
I hope the eventual removal of the multi-port and switch to cartridge will lower the head loss enough to bump my flow rate up a bit ... to make the solar more efficient and give me more buffer on the SWG flow switch on low speed.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,447
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Season 5 Episide 243 (I should get Netflix to pick up my story and turn it into a show)
Clarity restored!! After 36 hours of continuous circulation and filtering (and 3 rounds of manual vacuuming....and a half dozen sweeps with the wall brush....and running my robot three times), I can see the Phillips head screws on the main drain cover....wait, are those Torx, arrrggghh Torx
!!! OCLT at 10ppm passed so the chemistry, aside from my sky-high CH, is all good.
The filter pressure is not where I’d like it to be though. It’s a few PSI above where it was last year and I think it may have to do with whatever the Leslie’s DE stuff is. I’m going to get a different brand of DE but not backwash until after Friday when the tile guy shows up to knock all the light scale off the spa face and bathtub ring. Since I have to drain the pool down to the bottom of the tile line, I’ll use a combo of backwashing and my submersible to drain the pool.
I appreciated (and paid handsomely for) having the parts available at the Leslie’s pool store 3 miles down the road but I’m not at all impressed with their DE. I don’t know what the difference is but I half-wonder if they didn’t have some kind of additive in it to lower the dust level
Anyway, this too shall pass....
Clarity restored!! After 36 hours of continuous circulation and filtering (and 3 rounds of manual vacuuming....and a half dozen sweeps with the wall brush....and running my robot three times), I can see the Phillips head screws on the main drain cover....wait, are those Torx, arrrggghh Torx
!!! OCLT at 10ppm passed so the chemistry, aside from my sky-high CH, is all good. The filter pressure is not where I’d like it to be though. It’s a few PSI above where it was last year and I think it may have to do with whatever the Leslie’s DE stuff is. I’m going to get a different brand of DE but not backwash until after Friday when the tile guy shows up to knock all the light scale off the spa face and bathtub ring. Since I have to drain the pool down to the bottom of the tile line, I’ll use a combo of backwashing and my submersible to drain the pool.
I appreciated (and paid handsomely for) having the parts available at the Leslie’s pool store 3 miles down the road but I’m not at all impressed with their DE. I don’t know what the difference is but I half-wonder if they didn’t have some kind of additive in it to lower the dust level
Anyway, this too shall pass....
- May 23, 2015
- 24,447
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This is the stuff I like to use -
And it was only $9.99 for a 10lbs bag at eKonomy Pool & Spa.....eKonomy ROCKS!!
And it was only $9.99 for a 10lbs bag at eKonomy Pool & Spa.....eKonomy ROCKS!!
- Jul 16, 2012
- 7,211
- Pool Size
- 27000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
This from an engineer and pool-guy extraordinaire! I’ll keep my cartridge. ?
Season 5 Episide 243 (I should get Netflix to pick up my story and turn it into a show)
Clarity restored!! After 36 hours of continuous circulation and filtering (and 3 rounds of manual vacuuming....and a half dozen sweeps with the wall brush....and running my robot three times), I can see the Phillips head screws on the main drain cover....wait, are those Torx, arrrggghh Torx
The filter pressure is not where I’d like it to be though. It’s a few PSI above where it was last year and I think it may have to do with whatever the Leslie’s DE stuff is. I’m going to get a different brand of DE but not backwash until after Friday when the tile guy shows up to knock all the light scale off the spa face and bathtub ring. Since I have to drain the pool down to the bottom of the tile line, I’ll use a combo of backwashing and my submersible to drain the pool.
I appreciated (and paid handsomely for) having the parts available at the Leslie’s pool store 3 miles down the road but I’m not at all impressed with their DE. I don’t know what the difference is but I half-wonder if they didn’t have some kind of additive in it to lower the dust level
Torx?? Close but not quite, when your water gets really clear you will see a small bump in the center to prevent a torx driver from removing the grate.
“Security” driver, take a close look at public hardware or anti theft license plate hardware & you will see the epicenter bump buried in torx like
hardware.
Was your builder a paramount dealer??
**** I’d find it bizarre if license plate thief wasn’t equipped with a security style driver, just sayin’
- May 23, 2015
- 24,447
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I prefer the one-way security screws...you can only tighten them. As for the security Torx, easy-peasy lemon-squeezy - just go get a set of Gra-Bits and drill those suckers right out ....
Actually my drain covers have standard Philips head screws, no security needed. Apparently my pool builder thought I was intelligent enough to not mess with the covers...boy was he wrong!
I use the security screws to hold down my tinfoil hat on windy days.. works like a boss!!
- Oct 18, 2009
- 3,637
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I was thinking along those lines also however I wish I could just replace the internal guts from DE to Cartridge. Do you know if this could be done
- May 23, 2015
- 24,447
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I was thinking along those lines also however I wish I could just replace the internal guts from DE to Cartridge. Do you know if this could be done
If memory serves me correctly, which it usually does not
, I believe Pentair swaps the inlet and outlet connections on the filters when you go from a DE to cart filter. Considering the cost of new internals (manifolds, cartridges, etc), you might as well just buy a new filter.