That's what the polyquat algaecide is for. It will hold algae at bay for a couple days while you're chlorine-free.JoanC said:
Green Pool & Stained Liner
- Thread starter JoanC
- Start date
Yep, I know Richard. That's why I put it in.
You're smiling face helps though!
I feel like I'm on my own but, like I told my husband: I got a plan!
If I mess up, I'll clean it up. Won't be the first time.
I can balance my pool. I can even get these stains off. I've done it before and even kept them off before.
Something was different last year and part of it was different chemicals and listening to different people who were professionals.
Things are different this year too.
Chemistry much different to begin process has me worried.
I want to use best sequestrant so will get the Magic Jack's Pink I guess since it's the one recommended.
Anyway, I'll get back when I have a change.
Thank you Richard! Your smile really does help!
Joan
You're smiling face helps though!
I feel like I'm on my own but, like I told my husband: I got a plan!
If I mess up, I'll clean it up. Won't be the first time.
I can balance my pool. I can even get these stains off. I've done it before and even kept them off before.
Something was different last year and part of it was different chemicals and listening to different people who were professionals.
Things are different this year too.
Chemistry much different to begin process has me worried.
I want to use best sequestrant so will get the Magic Jack's Pink I guess since it's the one recommended.
Anyway, I'll get back when I have a change.
Thank you Richard! Your smile really does help!
Joan
One way to shorten the post of a long winded writer, is for the web page to go blank at the end of a long, drawn out, story.
Things have been busy here so no time to post.
Many thanks to all who helped!
Stains removed successfully Labor Day weekend!
pH was at 6.8--Cl was .5 - TA was 30 - CYA <20 - CH 150
Ascorbic acid about 5lbs bulk. Too much but it worked. Yes, eats up chlorine.
1 bottle poly quat 60.
Circulate x 4 days then drained little over 3000 gallons to decrease metal/iron content.
Replaced water with metal free supply & added 3 bottles Jack's Magic Pink Stuff. Circulate a couple of days till husband thought it a mistake & put on Filter. Ok though.
About a 10 day bath for liner with the above & started to balance beginning with TA then pH.
Water got cloudy after adding 2nd gallon of conditioner. Cloudy lasted about 2.5 weeks.
I have beautiful yard art! Not swimming due to not balanced. Not balanced due to my fear of stain precipitation from Chlorine added to quickly.
These are points and issues:
pH been running high. Have used 1 gallon of Muriatic acid over 2 weeks in past month to get down. Goes back up to 8.2.
TA is stable. Thought shallow jet very slight moving of surface water may be aerating so turned it more downward 4 days ago. Will see if it helps.
Changed to granular acid to lower pH today. Even with mask I have trouble with the Muriatic fumes. Was 8.2 at home today, at pool store was 7.8. Put in 27oz dry pH down. K-1000 4hrs after pH 7.8
Stabilizer: 2 gallons of conditioner & 4 lbs of granules. reading is zero. Yes, I put the conditioner into the skimmer slowly, shook it to break up the clumps. I put the granules in pantyhose in the skimmer. These were done at separate times. No backwash until 7 full days after each addition. The only time CYA showed up on test at pool store was after 1st gallon of conditioner. Lots of rain past 2 weeks. Drain to waste x3. No further stabilizer added till rain slows and no draining.
Pool store said various possibilities for stabilizer not showing up when actually there but not specific.
Chlorine: virtually zero for past 2 mos. I've added liquid 12.5% sporadically according to the pool calculator and my chemistry. It does not hold due to no CYA. Best reading was 1 and very light stains reappeared so added approx. 16oz more Pink Stuff. 2 days later stains gone but Cl down to 0 again.
No algae growth noted until yesterday even with all the rain. Total of 2 bottles of poly quat 60 put in with last one in smaller doses. Added about 8oz last night.
I have 12.5% liquid Chlorine & 3" trichlor tabs. Maybe adding some of the tabs in hopes of the CYA in them holding?
I do not want to shock for fear of metal release. I also fear algae growth.
I have small amount of debris to vac out from rain & wind also.
Thank you for your help!
Joan
chemistry per TF-100 & K-1000
pH 8.2 (after 27oz pH down 7.8)
FC 0
CC 0
TC 0
TA 90
CH 140
CYA 0
Pool Store #'s
pH 7.8 (prior to pH down )
Cl 0
TA 110
CH 75
CYA 0
[attachment=1:188fu57b]IMG_2599.jpg[/attachment:188fu57b]
[attachment=0:188fu57b]IMG_9854.jpg[/attachment:188fu57b]
Things have been busy here so no time to post.
Many thanks to all who helped!
Stains removed successfully Labor Day weekend!
pH was at 6.8--Cl was .5 - TA was 30 - CYA <20 - CH 150
Ascorbic acid about 5lbs bulk. Too much but it worked. Yes, eats up chlorine.
1 bottle poly quat 60.
Circulate x 4 days then drained little over 3000 gallons to decrease metal/iron content.
Replaced water with metal free supply & added 3 bottles Jack's Magic Pink Stuff. Circulate a couple of days till husband thought it a mistake & put on Filter. Ok though.
About a 10 day bath for liner with the above & started to balance beginning with TA then pH.
Water got cloudy after adding 2nd gallon of conditioner. Cloudy lasted about 2.5 weeks.
I have beautiful yard art! Not swimming due to not balanced. Not balanced due to my fear of stain precipitation from Chlorine added to quickly.
These are points and issues:
pH been running high. Have used 1 gallon of Muriatic acid over 2 weeks in past month to get down. Goes back up to 8.2.
TA is stable. Thought shallow jet very slight moving of surface water may be aerating so turned it more downward 4 days ago. Will see if it helps.
Changed to granular acid to lower pH today. Even with mask I have trouble with the Muriatic fumes. Was 8.2 at home today, at pool store was 7.8. Put in 27oz dry pH down. K-1000 4hrs after pH 7.8
Stabilizer: 2 gallons of conditioner & 4 lbs of granules. reading is zero. Yes, I put the conditioner into the skimmer slowly, shook it to break up the clumps. I put the granules in pantyhose in the skimmer. These were done at separate times. No backwash until 7 full days after each addition. The only time CYA showed up on test at pool store was after 1st gallon of conditioner. Lots of rain past 2 weeks. Drain to waste x3. No further stabilizer added till rain slows and no draining.
Pool store said various possibilities for stabilizer not showing up when actually there but not specific.
Chlorine: virtually zero for past 2 mos. I've added liquid 12.5% sporadically according to the pool calculator and my chemistry. It does not hold due to no CYA. Best reading was 1 and very light stains reappeared so added approx. 16oz more Pink Stuff. 2 days later stains gone but Cl down to 0 again.
No algae growth noted until yesterday even with all the rain. Total of 2 bottles of poly quat 60 put in with last one in smaller doses. Added about 8oz last night.
I have 12.5% liquid Chlorine & 3" trichlor tabs. Maybe adding some of the tabs in hopes of the CYA in them holding?
I do not want to shock for fear of metal release. I also fear algae growth.
I have small amount of debris to vac out from rain & wind also.
Thank you for your help!
Joan
chemistry per TF-100 & K-1000
pH 8.2 (after 27oz pH down 7.8)
FC 0
CC 0
TC 0
TA 90
CH 140
CYA 0
Pool Store #'s
pH 7.8 (prior to pH down )
Cl 0
TA 110
CH 75
CYA 0
[attachment=1:188fu57b]IMG_2599.jpg[/attachment:188fu57b]
[attachment=0:188fu57b]IMG_9854.jpg[/attachment:188fu57b]
Attachments
Do you want to admire the pool, or use it? 
C'mon! Hang some CYA in a sock and get that dissolving. It lowers pH, by the way, so it shouldn't affect the metals. And then grit your teeth and start pouring.
C'mon! Hang some CYA in a sock and get that dissolving. It lowers pH, by the way, so it shouldn't affect the metals. And then grit your teeth and start pouring.
You made me laugh Richard!
And I sooooo need it! Son's wedding in two weeks! Thank God not at our house!
What I want .......I probably shouldn't write here.
You're right !
Thought last night while surveying the pool, I just need to bite the bullet & get some conditioner to have instant CYA in & get the Chlorine in there.
I don't have either type stabilizer at present. Pool store was out yesterday. Said they'll have some in today.
I'll go back to my pool calc results to see how much on the conditioner and bleach. We'll see what the pH does after.
I'm still smiling Richard! You did good.
Got any advice for the wedding?
Thank YOU!
And I sooooo need it! Son's wedding in two weeks! Thank God not at our house!
What I want .......I probably shouldn't write here.
You're right !
Thought last night while surveying the pool, I just need to bite the bullet & get some conditioner to have instant CYA in & get the Chlorine in there.
I don't have either type stabilizer at present. Pool store was out yesterday. Said they'll have some in today.
I'll go back to my pool calc results to see how much on the conditioner and bleach. We'll see what the pH does after.
I'm still smiling Richard! You did good.
Got any advice for the wedding?
Thank YOU!
Hi to Richard or whoever wants to offer help.
Pool looks great!
Stains still sequestered it appears with FC at 2.5 today. TC 3.5
Always worried that the monster (stains, metals) will be let loose.
Hopes of getting FC to 3.
pH continues to go up with repeated treatments to lower. pH 8.2 today
pH goes down with treatment for a day or so then back up.
TA has remained a constant 90 with no addition of baking soda.
Jets aimed down so no apparent aeration.
Added 2 gallons of conditioner plus 4lbs of granular stabilizer on July 19th.
Didn't backwash till yesterday so 2 wks & 5 days till backwash after stabilizer added.
I have K-1000 & TF-100 test kits.
Never has stabilizer registered with my TF-100.
Still seeing the black dot when testing.
Got to order more test solution I've tested CYA so much.
Pool store has noted I have some so have used their results.
Would you please give feedback on possibilities for pH continuing to go up.
I've searched and ruled out many.
Also, any pointers on what I may be doing wrong with the CYA test.
I believe I've followed the directions correctly but maybe not.
Son's wedding this weekend so not much time to play with pool.
You guys are great!
Thanks for everything!
Joan
Pool looks great!
Stains still sequestered it appears with FC at 2.5 today. TC 3.5
Always worried that the monster (stains, metals) will be let loose.
Hopes of getting FC to 3.
pH continues to go up with repeated treatments to lower. pH 8.2 today
pH goes down with treatment for a day or so then back up.
TA has remained a constant 90 with no addition of baking soda.
Jets aimed down so no apparent aeration.
Added 2 gallons of conditioner plus 4lbs of granular stabilizer on July 19th.
Didn't backwash till yesterday so 2 wks & 5 days till backwash after stabilizer added.
I have K-1000 & TF-100 test kits.
Never has stabilizer registered with my TF-100.
Still seeing the black dot when testing.
Got to order more test solution I've tested CYA so much.
Pool store has noted I have some so have used their results.
Would you please give feedback on possibilities for pH continuing to go up.
I've searched and ruled out many.
Also, any pointers on what I may be doing wrong with the CYA test.
I believe I've followed the directions correctly but maybe not.
Son's wedding this weekend so not much time to play with pool.
You guys are great!
Thanks for everything!
Joan
I am not an expert in your situation but I read this thread and if I see it correctly, you have added enough CYA to get to a 30CYA for a 30K gallon pool but if you have had rain (as seems to be common in you place) your CYA is between 20 and 30 and this is a hard range to read. I would add another 4 pounds of granular CYA to see if if you get closer to 30CYA. The HTH granular at Wal_mart seems to dissolve really quickly if you hang it in front of your return. I use a "bra bag" to dissolve my CYA and hang it near the return (actually I place it in the bag of my PoolSkim, and this hangs in front of the return water.)
The CYA test with a CYA in the low 20 range is very difficult. Do you know you can re-test CYA with the same solution? You fill the squeeze bottle with the reagent and the pool water and this solution can be poured back and forth between the test tube and the squeeze bottle (yo-yo'd) until you get a solid consistent reading. I frequently do this 3 or 4 times I am unsure or have another person do it also. But if your CYA is low, it can be near impossible to read.
The CYA test with a CYA in the low 20 range is very difficult. Do you know you can re-test CYA with the same solution? You fill the squeeze bottle with the reagent and the pool water and this solution can be poured back and forth between the test tube and the squeeze bottle (yo-yo'd) until you get a solid consistent reading. I frequently do this 3 or 4 times I am unsure or have another person do it also. But if your CYA is low, it can be near impossible to read.
Thank you Guy!
I will try both of your suggestions.
And NO, I did not know that you can re-test with the same solution when testing CYA.
Rain. Yes we've had a lot this summer but not so much lately. Had to add water due to evaporation twice since CYA added 2.5 weeks ago.
So, do I consider evaporation and dilution thereafter?
I've also been thinking about using some of my pucks (stabilized chlorine tabs) since I have a supply of them not even opened.
This would add to the CYA, add Chlorine while I'm so busy and USE them.
Been waiting about this till I kind of got the Chlorine to hold since doing the stain treatment.
The ascorbic acid did eat up quite a bit.
Anyone with ideas about the pH continuing to rise please chime in.
Happy medium on all of it sounds good to me and stop all of the over thinking!
thanks everybody!
Joan
I will try both of your suggestions.
And NO, I did not know that you can re-test with the same solution when testing CYA.
Rain. Yes we've had a lot this summer but not so much lately. Had to add water due to evaporation twice since CYA added 2.5 weeks ago.
So, do I consider evaporation and dilution thereafter?
I've also been thinking about using some of my pucks (stabilized chlorine tabs) since I have a supply of them not even opened.
This would add to the CYA, add Chlorine while I'm so busy and USE them.
Been waiting about this till I kind of got the Chlorine to hold since doing the stain treatment.
The ascorbic acid did eat up quite a bit.
Anyone with ideas about the pH continuing to rise please chime in.
Happy medium on all of it sounds good to me and stop all of the over thinking!
thanks everybody!
Joan
Evaporation does not effect CYA since the CYA doesn't evaporate. Rain and the resulting overflow as well as vacuuming to waste do effect the CYA as you are removing water. Once you get too much CYA in the pool, it needs to be removed by removing/replacing water.
Pucks do add both CYA and FC and can be effective if you need both. If they are in a sealed bucket, I would return them and buy liquid chlorine and solid Stabilizer or Conditioner (CYA). This way you can control them better. It's like making a margarita with tequila, triple sec, lime and sweet and sour as opposed to using the grocery store pre-mix. You get a better drink and you can control the quality easier.
If you want to use pucks, you can go to the bottom of the poolcalculator.com to see how they effect your pool. Enter your gallons at the top and then make adjustments in the bottom section. You can figure out the weight of the pucks by taking the number of pucks in bucket by the number of pounds. As an example, if you had an 8 oz. trichlor puck it adds 1.5FC, 0.9 CYA and lowers your ph by 0.08 in a 30K gallon pool.
Pucks do add both CYA and FC and can be effective if you need both. If they are in a sealed bucket, I would return them and buy liquid chlorine and solid Stabilizer or Conditioner (CYA). This way you can control them better. It's like making a margarita with tequila, triple sec, lime and sweet and sour as opposed to using the grocery store pre-mix. You get a better drink and you can control the quality easier.
If you want to use pucks, you can go to the bottom of the poolcalculator.com to see how they effect your pool. Enter your gallons at the top and then make adjustments in the bottom section. You can figure out the weight of the pucks by taking the number of pucks in bucket by the number of pounds. As an example, if you had an 8 oz. trichlor puck it adds 1.5FC, 0.9 CYA and lowers your ph by 0.08 in a 30K gallon pool.
Can't really help with the pH, other than to say, keep pH in line, and it'll all balance out.
Last year my TA was in the 140-160 range (due to the pool store guidance the year before) and pH constantly tried to climb to the stratosphere. This year, between natural drop and water replacement, my TA is at 100, and my pH has been rock solid between 7.3 and 7.5 with no chemical additions. My point is, just do whatever you have to in order to keep pH in line and see what happens. Your pool's "personality" will reveal itself.
As for the CYA, remember that it only leaves the pool during backwashing/draining or splashout. Water replacement due to evaporation won't change it. Here's an example....if your CYA is at 50, then water evaporates, the concentration might go up to say, 60. Then it rains (or you add water from the tap) to top it off, the CYA concentration will come right back to 50. Make sense?
EDIT: ARGH!!! Techguy beat me!
Last year my TA was in the 140-160 range (due to the pool store guidance the year before) and pH constantly tried to climb to the stratosphere. This year, between natural drop and water replacement, my TA is at 100, and my pH has been rock solid between 7.3 and 7.5 with no chemical additions. My point is, just do whatever you have to in order to keep pH in line and see what happens. Your pool's "personality" will reveal itself.
As for the CYA, remember that it only leaves the pool during backwashing/draining or splashout. Water replacement due to evaporation won't change it. Here's an example....if your CYA is at 50, then water evaporates, the concentration might go up to say, 60. Then it rains (or you add water from the tap) to top it off, the CYA concentration will come right back to 50. Make sense?
EDIT: ARGH!!! Techguy beat me!
Thank you Both!
Made sense to me that the evaporation would only concentrate the CYA and addition of water from any source would dilute it or bring it back up to the original level.
Also knowing after much reading that the only way CYA leaves a pool is the removal of water.
I had read about the puck's contents but thank you so much for making it convenient for me to calculate.
And I love the pool calculator!
I agree about the precision of separate components also.
Hopefully the pH will find a happy place soon that is happy for me.
I must say, as much trouble as it has been getting the stains off, keeping them off, I love all of the chemical processes involved.
I just can't stand when one stumps me like this pH thing. Continued patience.
thank you so, so much!
Joan
Made sense to me that the evaporation would only concentrate the CYA and addition of water from any source would dilute it or bring it back up to the original level.
Also knowing after much reading that the only way CYA leaves a pool is the removal of water.
I had read about the puck's contents but thank you so much for making it convenient for me to calculate.
And I love the pool calculator!
I agree about the precision of separate components also.
Hopefully the pH will find a happy place soon that is happy for me.
I must say, as much trouble as it has been getting the stains off, keeping them off, I love all of the chemical processes involved.
I just can't stand when one stumps me like this pH thing. Continued patience.
thank you so, so much!
Joan