Flow sensor & Easy Touch relay

[BigIslandPoolService]

Aloha Automation Wizards!

I've been pretty much "out" of the pool service business for years now...but someone ran into me at HD (big orange) and tapped my brain for some info. It led to him pleading with me to solve his pool problem at a large and expensive home that he recently acquired. What could I do...I showed up to see what his problems were, and I am almost done. But I thought I had better run one question by my experienced friends at TFP first, since it does not fall into the "normal setup" of Pentair Easy Touch 8. Here we go...

The pool is completely lined with vibrant GOLD tile (non pool tile!)...yes, it literally looks like gold ingots lining the whole 60' x 14' pool! Ever seen a yellow gold pool? Not a good color choice...in the deep end, the yellow counteracts the blue of the normal cyan hue, so you just end up with a deep end where the water looks GREEN! Yup, even with gorgeous clean sparkling water! SO...the owner is against using a SWCG (he's afraid it will damage his tile), and prefers to use the TFP standard of liquid chlorine (although at low concentrations) along with a Cu-Al-Zn ion generator (Clearwater) and a large UV light system. I haven't been able to find ANYTHING from the manufacturer online (specs, installation etc.), but it basically runs like a SWCG...except he wants to use it with a flow switch from a SWCG as an extra protection measure. Can I wire the 2 wires from the flow sensor to the top of an AUX relay (powered on line terminals with 120V) and then wire the power leads of the controller to that relay's load terminals? My idea is that when the flow sensor closes the circuit, the relay sends power to the ion generator controller, and it then runs normally until flow stops. Am I right?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

No. The control side of the relay is not a contact closure. I believe it’s a 24V DC (not 100% sure of the voltage) signal produced by the logic board.

If your friend cares at all about his big expensive pool, then using the ion generator is the WRONG way to go. TFP has several threads regarding these “alternatives to chlorine” sanitizer systems. SWG’s do not damage pool tile at all, what damages pool tile is improper water chemistry. So not only is he wasting his money on the ion generator but he’s in for a nasty surprise when his pool fills up with algae and bacteria but he can’t see it because his water is already green from the poor choice of colors ...

How sad that someone will spend so much money on a pool (tiling a pool is crazy-expensive) only to ruin it by listening to nonsense. Oh well, his money down the drain, not mine....

 

[BigIslandPoolService]

Thanks for the clarification, JoyfulNoise!
I should have known that those relays need an electrical stimulus from the buttons on the Circuit Board...

And, yeah, this pool is obviously a bit of a weirdo with built-in problems...not much I can do about that. Any idea how I can rig the "continuity only" flow sensor with the Easy Touch SWCG (built-in system) to send power to the ion controller?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Warren,

Why do you need a flow sensor? If he has an ET 8, he most likely has an IntelliFlo. You can just hook the ion whatever to the pump/filter relay which will only be closed if the pump should be running...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

So, just for educational purposes, the Clearwater system is your usual junk science, anti-chlorine “alternative sanitizer”. Here’s a sample -

CONTROL ALGAE, BACTERIA AND VIRUSES

The copper ionization system will help control algae, bacteria and viruses, while the ozone provides the oxidization needed. This new combination system allows you to greatly reduce chlorine levels lower better than ever before.

(strike through emphasis added)

So no, the mineral system does not control pathogens. Copper kills algae, that’s it. It has no effect against bacteria or virus’. Silver is only effective when water temperatures are above 95F and another oxidizer is present. Zinc does very little in terms of pathogenic control.

But, BEST OF ALL!!!!, look at their certifications -

ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY
The MineralPURE Pool System uses technology that was licensed by NASA and the majority of our units are NSF certified. NSF is the most recognized approval certification in the world. Most of our units are also UL certified, the world’s most trusted certification for electrical and safely compliance.

NASA?!?! Who cares! When NASA starts building pools on the moon, let’s talk. Now let’s see about that highly coveted NSF standard

NSF/ANSI 50 Standard -

Clearwater Enviro Technologies Copper Ion Generators[1] [2]
CS-150​	​	​	​	​
CS-225​	​	​	​	​
CS-300​	​	​	​	​
CS-450​	​	​	​	​
CS-600​	​	​	​	​
CS-75​	​	​	​	​
R-20​	​	​	​	​
R-40​	​	​	​	​
RC-50​	​	​	​	​
[1] This unit has not demonstrated an ability to provide three log reduction of Pseudomonas aeruginosa. This unit has not demonstrated an ability to provide three log reduction of Enterococcus faecium. This product is designed to be operated with no less than 0.4 ppm free chlorine or 0.8 ppm free bromine. Additional residual levels of EPA registered disinfecting chemicals may be required by the regulatory agency having authority. [2] Copper only unit.

Notice that the NSF standard applies to all pool equipment. All it really certifies is that their system generates the stuff it’s supposed to generate but the NSF certification explicitly says that these systems do not produce adequate sanitation without a minimum of 0.4ppm FC (and that assumes zero CYA). So, if one understands the science correctly, 0.4ppm FC at 0 CYA and a pH of 7.5 yields 200ppb active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) which is 2X the amount needed to kill bacteria and virus’. So if you have to have the FC anyway, what’s the point of the metal ions?? None really.

And finally, the super-duper special UL Certification .... ummmm, well, it’s a consumer electrical product sold in the USA therefore it needs a UL certification to ensure its built to common electrical standards and it won’t electrocute you to death when you dive in the pool.

I guess you’re doing a nice thing by helping this guy out with his plumbing issues but, seriously, I would not waste too much more time or brain-cycles trying to Gerry-rig a flow switch for a piece of pool equipment that is entirely pointless.

 

[BigIslandPoolService]

Thanks, JoyfulNoise!
I agree...and as I said, he is using 10% liquid chlorine in the pool (which, as we know, is REALLY what is keeping the pool clear).

And for anyone else who is following this thread, I need to let you know that I talked with a tech at Carefree Clearwater this morning, and he verified that there is really NO NEED for a flow switch as a protection, because the tri-metal anodes will not get damaged by a no flow situation. Most owners will figure out that their pump is not running within a day or two, and there will simply be a buildup of ions at the generator tee, and a bolus blast of them coming from the return(s) when the pump finally circulates water again. NO DANGEROUS situation will ensue.