Fixing Poor Choices before my Ownership

[sakeating]

Hello!

I have lurked here at TFP for awhile, and wanted to post as I am starting to get more serious about my pool. Some brief background here: I am the second owner of this home and pool. The pool was remodeled in 2016 which included pool resurfacing with pebbletec, and some equipment changes. The best way I can sum up the issues is that there were several installation and maintenance companies involved that all made poor choices. We have been the owners for almost three years now, and I had some projects planned for this winter and spring before the swimming season starts here in SoCal. However, a surprise pump failure is now adding to my list of issues. I have a pentair easy touch automation system and a recently rebuilt intelliflo variable speed 3.56 pump.
1. The plumbing is a mess. There is a 90 degree elbow coming right off the return of the pump. The lines wrap around the filter before entering, and then wrap back around the the gas heater and solar heater systems. Both the pump and the filter are sitting on the dirt/mud. The old SWCG appears to be installed on what appears to be a decommissioned section of plumbing, but I don't know for sure. There is a pin hole leak on a return valve joint. I plan on digging a lot of this out, and replumbing by the equipment section, and adding either a concrete pad or concrete block for the pump and filter. See the photos. What would everyone else do here?

2. This next part might be more of a post for the automation section of this site, but I have some issues here too. Most of the automation functions were not set up when I bought the property. The solar heater valve was manual control only, and the valve for the vacuum was programmed at 100% so it caused a lot of cavitation. I'm pretty confident that the programming issues are fairly well sorted at this point, but I'm open to input. The pentair easytouch panel was piggy backed off the original electrical box that had a basic 24 hour timer and switches for lights. The pentair panel is not actually being used as a load center, and instead just has all of energized wires stranded together with some nuts. It's slightly better now that I have reinstalled the pump as the all of the connections are tight, but it seems pretty sketchy to me. I was thinking about trying to remove the old box, and simply wire up the pentair panel as the load center. I do need to figure out if the SWCG is wired for 110 or 220. From my home's main panel, there are two 20 amp breakers that feed the original pool control box. The heater is powered by a separate dedicated circuit from the main panel, which seems like a wasted run. The other issue is that while the lights are GFCI protected from the old box and operated by the relays in the pentair panel, the actual pump is not gfci protected. I live in a semi-rural area, so there aren't many pool equipment professionals. I have used one in the past that came highly recommended who replaced the filter canister, but he ended up making the plumbing even worse than it is now. I'm at the point where I'm ready to get my hands dirty to fix everything. I am not an electrician, but I have access to one that can advise me, or do the work for me if i can't figure it out.

After reading the above, and looking at the photos, what would everyone do with this setup?

 

[flynwill]

Indeed if it were mine I'd be very tempted to take it all apart and start over, starting with pouring a new concrete pad for everything. I don't see any obvious reason that the equipment is crowded so tightly together, would there be any issue if the layout extended and additional 2-3' to the right?

With the help of your electrician you could indeed pull a new 40 or 50A feed to the subpanel in the EasyTouch panel and re-wire everything from there. How hard that would be depends on where your panel is. You might even be able to reuse some or all of the conduit current running to the timer box. That would allow you to eliminate the old timer box and the uni-strut frame that holds it up. Do you have the dead-front (the metal panel that covers the breakers and 120V wiring) for the EasyTouch panel?

 

[ajw22]

That EasyTouch panel looks sketchy. I don’t see the transformer that powers the board which should be in the high voltage compartment. It looks like someone moved the transformer up to the low voltage area. That violates the safety design of the panel to separate the high voltage and low voltage.

If you go to the effort of rewiring with a Loadcenter I would get an IntelliCenter and start clean.

 

[sakeating]

Indeed if it were mine I'd be very tempted to take it all apart and start over, starting with pouring a new concrete pad for everything. I don't see any obvious reason that the equipment is crowded so tightly together, would there be any issue if the layout extended and additional 2-3' to the right?

With the help of your electrician you could indeed pull a new 40 or 50A feed to the subpanel in the EasyTouch panel and re-wire everything from there. How hard that would be depends on where your panel is. You might even be able to reuse some or all of the conduit current running to the timer box. That would allow you to eliminate the old timer box and the uni-strut frame that holds it up. Do you have the dead-front (the metal panel that covers the breakers and 120V wiring) for the EasyTouch panel?

Thanks for your reply, it’s appreciated. It’s funny, there’s about 10 feet of open space to the right of the equipment, so I also see no reason for everything to be so crowded. I’ve seen some pictures on this site of really clean plumbing that I am pretty confident I can achieve here.

I do have the dead front. I pulled it off to take the pictures. I’ll have to pull the cover off the top to see if the transformer is somehow crammed in there. I agree it’s super sketchy. Believe it or not it’s slightly improved as I actually stranded the connections together underneath the wire nuts when I reinstalled the pump. Everything was pretty loose before. I’m worried I’m missing some pieces for the load center but I’m not sure. I’ll have to double check the gauge of the wiring but I’m pretty sure it’s 10awg. The main panel is on the opposite side of the house. Running a new conduit would be challenging, but doable. The exposed conduit is all flex, I’m not sure what’s in the dirt. I’ll have to start digging carefully and find out!

 

[sakeating]

That EasyTouch panel looks sketchy. I don’t see the transformer that powers the board which should be in the high voltage compartment. It looks like someone moved the transformer up to the low voltage area. That violates the safety design of the panel to separate the high voltage and low voltage.

If you go to the effort of rewiring with a Loadcenter I would get an IntelliCenter and start clean.

Thanks for your reply. The whole thing looks sketchy to me. I was surprised when I pulled the deadfront off to disconnect the pump. The equipment hasn’t had a lot of attention until now because it worked for the most part. I’ll need to look at the relays more carefully, but I’m worried there’s also high voltage current connected where there shouldn’t be.

I think the only thing stopping me from getting a whole new panel is the cost. Though when adding up the cost of the missing parts and the Pentair gfci breaker, I might be getting close. I know my family would love to have the ability to connect via smartphone to turn things on and off.

 

[ajw22]

I also find it interesting that you have four relays but five buttons labeled.

Which button on the panel does not work?

 

[ajw22]

Here is a pic of an EasyTouch panel like yours and you can see the transformer in the upper right.

@Jimrahbe what is the vintage of this type of EasyTouch panel with the circuit breakers in the center instead of one strip on the left side?

 

[sakeating]

There definitely seems to be differences in models. I was actually outside taking a picture of the low voltage section just now. FWIW, I did de-energize the panel before opening it up. The transformer appears to be in the intended spot, or it’s a very good modification! I also confirmed based on the wiring diagram that it’s wired for 220v. There’s two legs of hot coming into the box and a ground, but no neutral. I assume there is a neutral in the original timer box, otherwise the ground is probably energized……. The light relays are connected to the original timer box and the gfci outlet in there. Attached are more photos.

I haven’t looked closely at all the relays yet, but all 5 button functions work. For now it’s a mystery lol.

 

[ajw22]

A 220V circuit does not use a neutral.

My guess is you have a very old EasyTouch panel. There is a lot that looks different from what you would buy today.

 

[ajw22]

A modern EasyTouch board looks like this and the high voltage relays are plugged into the row of sockets in the upper left.

Your board and the connectors look very different.

 

[1poolman1]

That EasyTouch panel looks sketchy. I don’t see the transformer that powers the board which should be in the high voltage compartment. It looks like someone moved the transformer up to the low voltage area. That violates the safety design of the panel to separate the high voltage and low voltage.

If you go to the effort of rewiring with a Loadcenter I would get an IntelliCenter and start clean.

Pentair put the transformer there. It is right behind/attached to the panel with the mini circuit breakers on the far right. That large transformer in the high-voltage area is to power a SWG cell, not the automation system. OP doesn't have that, but you can just see the mounting holes for it in the cabinet.

If the main power to the system comes in to that Intermatic box, the EasyTouch, or a new system, can be moved there and new power won't need to be pulled. If I had installed it, that's where it would be now. No idea why someone would hang it on the wall, other than the install is a little easier, and access to the display is a little easier. With a wireless remote that isn't really a big concern.

Board isn't different, its the perspective of the two pictures.

 

[sakeating]

Pentair put the transformer there. It is right behind/attached to the panel with the mini circuit breakers on the far right. That large transformer in the high-voltage area is to power a SWG cell, not the automation system. OP doesn't have that, but you can just see the mounting holes for it in the cabinet.

If the main power to the system comes in to that Intermatic box, the EasyTouch, or a new system, can be moved there and new power won't need to be pulled. If I had installed it, that's where it would be now. No idea why someone would hang it on the wall, other than the install is a little easier, and access to the display is a little easier. With a wireless remote that isn't really a big concern.

Board isn't different, its the perspective of the two pictures.

Thanks for replying, I appreciate it. I think when I dig up the plumbing I will check to see how much slack is on the original run to the Intermatic box. I may be able simplify everything at that point if there is some slack that lets me get it closer to the house.

I also emailed pentair support and confirmed the correct pentair branded gfci breaker for my pump and load center. I’m hoping to get all this cleaned up in the next few weeks!