Expansion gap too small, grouted, tile falling off help

[reefpool]

Hi TFPers. ‘Tis the season to figure out what projects we need to do on the pool. Owned the home now two years, noticed our first hard freeze winter in 2020- 2021 resulted in some tiles falling off in two spots. After reading here it seems really our expansion gap was not proper- contained mortar or grout, which is cracked, rather than sikaflex, and also, well, in many spots there is basically barely a 1/8” gap and it’s only April, some areas there is like 3/4” so just depends.

I realize after reading that we’d need to excavate the grout down about 4”, but it seems like we really also need to cut off some long runs of this exposed aggregate/pebble concrete surface and that might be a real challenge!

When I read pool contractor reviews, I’m compelled to see if we can just do this ourselves to make sure it’s done right.

-what will it take to cut back the deck and how big do I need to make that expansion gap or what’s the easiest cut to make?

-the areas where the coping brick separated are the two areas where there is a point going into the water- this is where the tile came off is near those separated coping areas- what to do there? Hubby poured in sika in one area- gap is still there and looks terrible.

-can I easily re-set those tiles? Is it bad that algae is growing in that pool wall gap behind the tiles that came off?

-what am I not seeing here? If we do this will we buy ourselves a some years before bigger work is needed? Like many, with inflation we are tight.

-necessary to get a contractor?

Thank you!!!

 

[ajw22]

A pool expansion joint is typically 1/4: to 1" wide.

There are concrete saws that can cut the deck .

These cracks indicate the bond beam may be cracked. You need to remove the tiles in that area, chip out the thinset and see if the crack is in the bond beam. If so you have a bigger repair job and should also look at where else the bond beam is damaged.

The pool needs to be drained down so you can work on the tile in a dry area.

With all tiling proper surface preparation is critical to getting long lasting adhesion.

It can be a DIY job but the proper repair will take more then gluing tiles back on a wall.

 

[reefpool]

So I gather you’re talking about the horizontal crack behind the tile right? So this is not normal? What would I have caused this separation? Is it the lack of expansion joint separation and sealant? That crack in the coping grout, perhaps due to the lack of expansion joint? Something else? Do I need to confirm this is an issue or is this almost definitely an issue? We don’t have a ton of money to sink into the pool. I have a feeling at some point everything will need a remodel but I’m trying to delay this for at least a couple years. Can you help me with urgent care triage? I’m not qualified to rip out the coping and tile and repair a bond beam issue- well maybe I could do the ripping out part, but that would not be wise..

 

[ajw22]

So I gather you’re talking about the horizontal crack behind the tile right? So this is not normal?

You have a crack that starts on the coping and propagates vertically down to the horizontal crack. See the red line in the pic below...

What would I have caused this separation?

The deck movement putting pressure on the coping and bond beam causing the cracks.

Is it the lack of expansion joint separation and sealant?

If you had the expansion joint the deck could move independently from the pool and not put pressure on the coping.

That crack in the coping grout, perhaps due to the lack of expansion joint?

Yes

Something else?

Not likely.

Do I need to confirm this is an issue or is this almost definitely an issue?

You should confirm everything you hear from unknown people in the Internet.

The cracks are there and you should not have cracks. The depth and extent of the cracks should be investigated.

We don’t have a ton of money to sink into the pool. I have a feeling at some point everything will need a remodel but I’m trying to delay this for at least a couple years. Can you help me with urgent care triage? I’m not qualified to rip out the coping and tile and repair a bond beam issue- well maybe I could do the ripping out part, but that would not be wise..

I can only point out what I see. The cracks are not going to heal themselves. You can patch things and see how long it lasts.

 

[reefpool]

Thank you. I’d appreciate if you can explain a little more about why you think it is the bond beam- is the reasoning that the mortar of coping only generally cracks when the underlying structure does? And the tile area would not typically connect to the coping crack if not bond beam also cracked? I need to weigh the risk scenarios here- I don’t want to spend a ton cutting back the aggregate concrete and doing the spot work on the bond beam coping and tile if I really may have more damage from how long it went without an expansion joint. Would you be able help give me a ballpark what to expect on pricing range for a couple scenarios?:

1) remove coping and tile in those two areas, repair bond beam, replace coping and tiles.

2) cut back the deck and install the flexible seal around this very large pool. (If I do only this and a bit of DIY tile and mortar work, will it stop more damage from occurring and can I wait on bond beam work?)

3) replace the whole deck, all coping, all tile and any damaged bond beam areas (or is this supposed to be redone in full?)

Thanks a bunch for helping me with scoping, planning and budgeting. And for helping me to understand what you see.

Angela

 

[ajw22]

Thank you. I’d appreciate if you can explain a little more about why you think it is the bond beam- is the reasoning that the mortar of coping only generally cracks when the underlying structure does?

The horizontal crack is below where the motor of the coping would be.

A crack like that does not occur on the exterior only.

And the tile area would not typically connect to the coping crack if not bond beam also cracked?

The tile is applied to the bond beam.

I need to weigh the risk scenarios here- I don’t want to spend a ton cutting back the aggregate concrete and doing the spot work on the bond beam coping and tile if I really may have more damage from how long it went without an expansion joint. Would you be able help give me a ballpark what to expect on pricing range for a couple scenarios?:

You have to remove tiles and maybe some coping stones to see how extensive the cracking is and how deep into the bond beam it goes.

1) remove coping and tile in those two areas, repair bond beam, replace coping and tiles.

Talk to some contractors and get estimates unless youa re thinking of it being a DIY project.

2) cut back the deck and install the flexible seal around this very large pool. (If I do only this and a bit of DIY tile and mortar work, will it stop more damage from occurring and can I wait on bond beam work?)

Like I said the cracks will not heal themselves but stopping the pressure of the deck should prevent any new cracks.

3) replace the whole deck, all coping, all tile and any damaged bond beam areas (or is this supposed to be redone in full?)

Have the contractors when estimating 1 give you an estimate for 2.

Below are threads with pics showing bond beam cracks and discussions how others did repairs...

Bond beam repair

I recently purchased a house with an in ground pool where the tile was loose around 1/3 of the pool, and a lot of the coping sounded hollow. After removing all of the tile I discovered bond beam damage in several places. As such, I have removed the coping stones, and chiseled out the bond beam...

www.troublefreepool.com

Bond beam repair

Hey there! So we bought a house that's got some issues with the pool. We have some leaking, tiles falling off, all softd of fun stuff. We went ahead and removed all the tile and thinset and got down to what i think the bond beam. Pieces were cracked and broke off while using the hammed drill...

www.troublefreepool.com

Bond beam repair - rebar or no?

Yup @bdavis466 - hoping for your advice please! We're in the middle of a remodel, pool is demoed and they are currently fixing the cracked areas in the bond beam. They are just adding new cement without using any rebar to tie in to existing structure. PB says he doesn't recommend adding rebar...

www.troublefreepool.com

HELP! Cracks in my bond beam

I recently discovered a crack in the bond beam of my pool. The pool has a cantilever deck, and I've been told the bond beam is likely connected (rebar) to the deck on the side where it is cracked. As such, as the deck settles, its cracking the bond beam. Does this seem right? What are my...

www.troublefreepool.com

what product should I use to repair crack in bond beam and chipped pebble finish?

Hi everyone! I found a leak in my spa and it appears to be from a crack in the bond beam. Removed our tiles (quite a few fell so was planning to DIY and replace them all) and the crack is rather large... nearly across the entire half of the tub. Besides the crack in the bond beam, also...

www.troublefreepool.com