Dual connection vs Relay Splitter

[JCMEnergy]

Hi, I read the conversation "Using the Zodiac 5098 Relay Splitter to Combine Lights" and I'm pretty sure @JamesW reply on Dec 10 , 2023 (...re not needing a splitter) answers my question but I wanted to confirm since my situation involves the main pump relay.
System:
- Jandy RS-8 controller (2006 - HW version MMM -does not support RS-485 communication)
- Pentair Whisperflow Variable Speed pump, hardwired (not via pump relay) with 240v. (Newly installed)
Configuration:
- Pump is set to "external control".
- Pump Speed 1 is connected via low voltage wire to "high voltage" side of relay 6. Pump Speed 2 is connected to relay 7 in the same way. So when Aux 6/Relay 6 is triggered from the RS-8, the contacts to the relay close and trigger Speed 1 on the pump. Same for Relay 7 & Speed.

This works fine for basic operation. (ie relay 6 or 7 come on by time of day or as a "OneTouch" group).
Concern:
It is not fool proof. A user could select Spa (JVA) & heater (not using OneTouch) but the Pool pump will not turn on AND the Jandy RS will think the pump is on (because it sent a signal to the pump relay) so it will allow the heater to come on (heater on but no water flow).
Question:
Is there any reason why I can not or should not wire the low voltage side of the of the Pump relay to the low voltage side of another relay (Aux 7) if I want the 2nd relay (Aux 7) to turn on every time the Pump Relay is energized? See attached diagram.
Thanks

Link to mentioned thread for reference

 

[1poolman1]

Hi, I read the conversation "Using the Zodiac 5098 Relay Splitter to Combine Lights" and I'm pretty sure @JamesW reply on Dec 10 , 2023 (...re not needing a splitter) answers my question but I wanted to confirm since my situation involves the main pump relay.
System:
- Jandy RS-8 controller (2006 - HW version MMM -does not support RS-485 communication)
- Pentair Whisperflow Variable Speed pump, hardwired (not via pump relay) with 240v. (Newly installed)
Configuration:
- Pump is set to "external control".
- Pump Speed 1 is connected via low voltage wire to "high voltage" side of relay 6. Pump Speed 2 is connected to relay 7 in the same way. So when Aux 6/Relay 6 is triggered from the RS-8, the contacts to the relay close and trigger Speed 1 on the pump. Same for Relay 7 & Speed.

This works fine for basic operation. (ie relay 6 or 7 come on by time of day or as a "OneTouch" group).
Concern:
It is not fool proof. A user could select Spa (JVA) & heater (not using OneTouch) but the Pool pump will not turn on AND the Jandy RS will think the pump is on (because it sent a signal to the pump relay) so it will allow the heater to come on (heater on but no water flow).
Question:
Is there any reason why I can not or should not wire the low voltage side of the of the Pump relay to the low voltage side of another relay (Aux 7) if I want the 2nd relay (Aux 7) to turn on every time the Pump Relay is energized? See attached diagram.
Thanks

Link to mentioned thread for reference

View attachment 551660

Is this a Whisperflow VST? Are one of the other relays (6 or 7) plugged into the #1 socket?
Why are you not just using relay 1, the filter pump relay for the high speed (speed 1), as it will turn on when the system is set to spa. Wire it like you have #6 and #7. Usually, speed 1 has priority, so if the #1 relay is "on", connected to Speed 1, its speed will override the other speeds.
Heater won't light with no water flow as the pressure switch won't close to complete the circuit, regardless of what the Jandy does.

 

[JCMEnergy]

Is this a Whisperflow VST? Are one of the other relays (6 or 7) plugged into the #1 socket?
Why are you not just using relay 1, the filter pump relay for the high speed (speed 1), as it will turn on when the system is set to spa. Wire it like you have #6 and #7. Usually, speed 1 has priority, so if the #1 relay is "on", connected to Speed 1, its speed will override the other speeds.
Heater won't light with no water flow as the pressure switch won't close to complete the circuit, regardless of what the Jandy does.

Yes, Whisperflow VST. No, relays 6 and 7 are not plugged into socket #1 (Pump socket). Pump Relay is in use (with 120v on each load) so I can not put low voltage connections on the Line & Load. Pump Relay must be energized in order for the cleaner (Aux 1) to get power (S1 Dip Sw #1 is set to ON per Jandy RS-8 instructions). Pump Relay must also be energized for heater to get power (I Might be able to move this but the cleaner still poses an issue. When using the WhisperFLow VST in external control mode (as I am), the speed priority (per pg 7 of WF VST manual) is Quick clean > Sp 3 > Sp 2 > Sp 1. Thus Speed 2 is higher priority then Speed 1. (Opposite priority order when using it under internal control). Good to know about Heater pressure switch. My solution seems to solve all problems. Any reason why it is not a good idea?

 

[1poolman1]

Yes, Whisperflow VST. No, relays 6 and 7 are not plugged into socket #1 (Pump socket). Pump Relay is in use (with 120v on each load) so I can not put low voltage connections on the Line & Load. Pump Relay must be energized in order for the cleaner (Aux 1) to get power (S1 Dip Sw #1 is set to ON per Jandy RS-8 instructions). Pump Relay must also be energized for heater to get power (I Might be able to move this but the cleaner still poses an issue. When using the WhisperFLow VST in external control mode (as I am), the speed priority (per pg 7 of WF VST manual) is Quick clean > Sp 3 > Sp 2 > Sp 1. Thus Speed 2 is higher priority then Speed 1. (Opposite priority order when using it under internal control). Good to know about Heater pressure switch. My solution seems to solve all problems. Any reason why it is not a good idea?

Despite the many generalities, every pool is a "custom" installation and it sometimes takes some creative configuring to work for yours.
If the system works to your satisfaction with your configuration, that's all that matters as long as it is safe.
The only difficulties I experience is when a system is used outside the "normal" way and troubleshooting can be an issue if someone isn't around to explain what was done. Have usually been able to figure them out, but it can become frustrating, partially because "my time is your money."
So, if you ever need to call in a tech, please be prepared to tell what it is that you have done and why so that a solution to whatever issue you may have can be quickly found.

 

[JCMEnergy]

thanks 1poolman but really my question is simply…. Is there any reason why I can not or should not wire the low voltage side of the of the Pump relay to the low voltage side of another relay (Aux 7) if I want the 2nd relay (Aux 7) to turn on every time the Pump Relay is energized?
@JamesW , your thoughts?

 

[JCMEnergy]

@1poolman1 - ok, I get it now. Your great suggestion is simple and finally makes sense to me! My mistake was assuming the pool relay load had to feed the cleaner and the heater with line voltage (as it was wired in my system). However, I now understand the Jandy control board (not the 240v wiring) ensures that the cleaner and heater do not turn on when the pool pump is not running. Thanks again for the idea...sorry I was so slow on the uptake.