Does stale bleach still register in chlorine tests?

[moonthirsty]

I've been SLAMing my pool for a few weeks now, even though the algae is really not that bad. It's sort of cloudy but I can see the bottom. I did go away for a few days, at which point I loaded up a trichlor tablet, but the chlorine levels are NOT going below shock level. It's just staying this vaguely green cloudy color. I got my 8.25% bleach from a dollar store so now I'm wondering if it is stale and ineffective, but still reading on the tests??

4600g AG Vinyl
CC: 0
FC/TC: 18
CYA: 40ish
Testing with TF-100.

Been using cellulose on my cartridge filter and cleaning that up every day. Maybe I need a new cartridge??? Got into the pool to vacuum it properly yesterday because I've been brushing but it's hard to do from outside the pool, and my ladybug wasn't keeping her feet on the ground. So, that's probably not real healthy but this is getting on my nerves and leaving the pump running constantly is killing me. What can I be doing better? Should I just buy some shock chems?

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

What is the strength of the bleach? Often that cheap stuff is only 3%.
But, the test should still read the FC level correctly.

I would not be adding any cellulose to a cartridge filter.

Can you add more details about your pool and equipment in your signature.

 

[moonthirsty]

Well, it says it's 8.25% but I'm not sure how to test the concentration. Is there a way to tell (other than reading the label)?

Last night I got aggravated and added 2oz of algaecide, but I left the cholrine as-is since my readings said it was fine.

I went to a pool store today for a second opinion on the CYA and they told me it was at 60, which would explain why I couldn't get it clean. Either my chems have lost their efficacy over the winter or I am reading the results very, very incorrectly. When I came home I tested CYA again and it was still telling me it was 40. I could maybe eke 45 out of it but definitely not 60.

Anyway, results from the store today were:
FC 10 (I re-tested this and it had dropped that much)
CH 80
CYA 60
TA 60 (they wanted me to boost this but I disregarded the advice)
pH 7.2
Phosphates 300 (what is this? I don't remember reading anything about phosphates but will do a search presently)

When I got home from the pool place, my water was no longer green at all, but it is still just a tad cloudy. So I took a dip, vacuumed, and then added another 3Q of bleach. It should be perfect by tomorrow.

Why is adding cellulose to a cartridge filter bad? I have found it indispensable in clearing out my water. Can you add more explanation as to what's wrong with it?

Added the pool info to my signature, but I think the manufacturer of my equipment is strictly local and monopolized by the (also local) place I got the pump and filter.

 

[TAZ427]

Well, it says it's 8.25% but I'm not sure how to test the concentration. Is there a way to tell (other than reading the label)?

Last night I got aggravated and added 2oz of algaecide, but I left the cholrine as-is since my readings said it was fine.

I went to a pool store today for a second opinion on the CYA and they told me it was at 60, which would explain why I couldn't get it clean. Either my chems have lost their efficacy over the winter or I am reading the results very, very incorrectly. When I came home I tested CYA again and it was still telling me it was 40. I could maybe eke 45 out of it but definitely not 60.

Anyway, results from the store today were:
FC 10 (I re-tested this and it had dropped that much)
CH 80
CYA 60
TA 60 (they wanted me to boost this but I disregarded the advice)
pH 7.2
Phosphates 300 (what is this? I don't remember reading anything about phosphates but will do a search presently)

When I got home from the pool place, my water was no longer green at all, but it is still just a tad cloudy. So I took a dip, vacuumed, and then added another 3Q of bleach. It should be perfect by tomorrow.

Why is adding cellulose to a cartridge filter bad? I have found it indispensable in clearing out my water. Can you add more explanation as to what's wrong with it?

Added the pool info to my signature, but I think the manufacturer of my equipment is strictly local and monopolized by the (also local) place I got the pump and filter.

Phosphates are sediment in water that can come from any number of places such as the water source or debris. While they are a good food source for algae, a level of 300ppb I'd assume. If it's that low, then I'd not worry about it right now, but focus on getting rid of the algae, if you have cloudiness issues after you've gotten rid of the algae, then you can think about looking at the phosphates, but as long as it's below 1000ppb, it's not an issue.

The CYA, while high isn't that high. When I bought my current house in Oct 2015 it had CYA of 136, while I had a couple fights with algae, it wasn't that bad (currently down to CYA of 83 and not had an issue with algae in 9mo and I keep FC/TC at around 2)

As for the Chlorine strength of liquid chlorine, yes it will drop over time (especially if stored in hot temps) I'd say from the FC measurements, it still has plenty of chlorine in the bottles you used (i.e. if the chlorine goes bad, you loose measurable chlorine levels - in other words you FC and TC numbers would read lower as well.)

When you add the algaecide, you should make sure to run the pump for 24hrs straight. The goal is to pull all the dead algae into the filter. Then clean the filter (take them out and spray them until they're as clean as possible.)

As for adding things that will plug the pours of your cartridge, you really need to see if the cartridge is intended to be used that way. This isn't a DE filter after all. You can end up damaging the filter or reducing flow, and reducing the filters ability to trap the dead algae.

TA of 60 is fairly low, but I'm in the belief of fixing one problem at a time, and unless you're having a big issue with your plaster, this isn't your biggest issue. If you go off trying to fix all the problems at once, you typically end up with even more problems. Get the Algae fixed, and the come back and bring the TA up. I'd use this calculator and use Baking Soda which will be cheaper than the Sodium Bicarbinate the pool store sells you The Pool Calculator Note that it is going to raise your Ph level (which happens to be low right now) so keep an eye on it. You may want to be using liquid chlorine during this process instead of trichlor tablets.

MOD note: Do NOT use the above link. Use Pool Math at the top of this page.

 

[AimeeH]

Phosphates are sediment in water that can come from any number of places such as the water source or debris. While they are a good food source for algae, a level of 300ppb I'd assume. If it's that low, then I'd not worry about it right now, but focus on getting rid of the algae, if you have cloudiness issues after you've gotten rid of the algae, then you can think about looking at the phosphates, but as long as it's below 1000ppb, it's not an issue.

When you add the algaecide, you should make sure to run the pump for 24hrs straight. The goal is to pull all the dead algae into the filter. Then clean the filter (take them out and spray them until they're as clean as possible.)

As for adding things that will plug the pours of your cartridge, you really need to see if the cartridge is intended to be used that way. This isn't a DE filter after all. You can end up damaging the filter or reducing flow, and reducing the filters ability to trap the dead

Phosphate don't matter at all in a properly chlorinated pool.

Algaecide is a PREVENTIVE at best and isn't the cure for an algae outbreak and depending what kind you use, you could be adding copper to the pool which can bring other headaches.

 

[jaduck]

Moon thirsty -

1. Listen to jblizzle...he is a pro!

2. DO NOT use the pool calculator! Please use Pool Math on this site.

3. Phosphates are hogwash, pure and simple!

4. Trust your results from the TF-100, not the pool store results!

5. Check the dates on the bleach, if stored properly they should be good! Using poolmath and your TF-100 will tell you if the bleach is working.

6. You don't need algaecides!

 

[Donldson]

3. Phosphates are hogwash, pure and simple!

Phosphates are not hogwash. The industry's fixation on blaming them for everything and selling expensive preventative measures certainly is, but they absolutely exist, they are algae food, and lowering them can have some effect. They are simply of little concern and rarely worth messing with in a properly managed pool.

But +1 to everything else you said!

 

[domct203]

The cellulose can completely clog the cartridge, then the suction from the pump can collapse them, sometime damaging the filter housing.

Use it in your cartridge system at your own risk, we do not recommend it.

 

[jblizzle]

The pump does not cause suction on the cartridge filter it causes pressure on the outside of the filter that can crush it.

 

[moonthirsty]

Thanks for all the responses, everyone. Pool is crystal clear again.
This is the calculator I use: https://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

I do have a mulberry tree that hangs over the pool and the birds drop berries all over the solar cover. I have to scoop out berries every day, but it probably explains the phosphates. That tree is staying where it is, so I guess I'll have to be more diligent about picking the berries. Mulberry wine probably tastes really good in a pool.

The CYA was just higher than I thought it was, so I was calculating how much chlorine to add incorrectly. Assuming their test was more accurate than mine. This place uses Taylor test kits to do their water analysis (unlike the last place which I found out was using test strips). Normally, I would trust my kit over the pool store, but I don't know how else to explain the low level cloudy green that went on for a good 3 weeks at slam levels unless my CYA readings were incorrect. The minute I adjusted for a higher CYA, all was good. That test is kind of painful. I turn my back to the sun, but on cloudy days the reading might change, and I'm always second-guessing just HOW opaque it should really be, or if I'm holding it at the right distance, squinting with one eye, etc, etc. Please just give me a digital readout. Can't guesstimate the colors on test strips for the life of me, either. HATE test strips.

I don't have any plaster on my pool, so I wasn't concerned with the TA level.

That's interesting about the cellulose. It always seems to rinse right off the cartridge when I clean it, and the pressure has never gone a hair above the 10psi it's supposed to run at. With all the jet spraying, I've been more concerned with creating micro-shreds on the paper. Certainly food for thought.

 

[AimeeH]

I would say to learn to trust your results over the pool store. Especially for that CYA test.

Here is the thing about that Taylor test. To be most accurate, it should be done in bright sunlight with your back to the sun, holding the view tube at about waist high. Does the pool store conduct the test that way?

I know it's a tough one to get used to. Glad your pool is sparkly again