Does Pentair Quad DE filters require a minimum pressure/flow rate?

[tradewinds]

I'm having an issue with DE media entering the pool on a new pool with new equipment.

I run the pump 24x7 but at 1000 rpm/20 GPM for ~16 hours (the other hours at 2500 rpm). Would this cause the issue?

 

[Jimrahbe]

TW,

Pump speed should not be an issue...

One of the routine issues we often see with Pentair Quad DE filters is that they get plumbed backwards...

Take some pics of your set up, and especially your MPV (Backwash) valve, and get the actual P/N and let us know what it is..

Too bad you did not stop by here first.. We would have recommend a large Cartridge filter..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tradewinds]

TW,

Pump speed should not be an issue...

One of the routine issues we often see with Pentair Quad DE filters is that they get plumbed backwards...

Take some pics of your set up, and especially your MPV (Backwash) valve, and get the actual P/N and let us know what it is..

Too bad you did not stop by here first.. We would have recommend a large Cartridge filter..

Thanks,

Jim R.

I sure wish I did. I had a starite DE filter back in early 2000 when I had my last pool and had switched from a cartridge to a DE and was overwhelm by the difference in clearness in the water and therefore when I built this one I thought the DE would be a no-brainer and went with it. I assume the consensus now is that cartridge is better given new advances and gives the same clarity?

I posted some equipment pics over here:

How long does baking soda take to fully dissolve?

I retested again. 4 drops from green to red. x10 is 40. Adding a few more drops didn't make it "redder"

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

TW,

Most likely your MPV is the right one, but it would make sense to make sure.. Go look at it and record all the Part numbers you see and let us know what they are.

Even God can't tell the difference between a pool with a large cartridge filter and one the has a DE filter. Something else made you pool clearer...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If DE is entering your pool and you can confirm all the plumbing is correct and the MPV spider gasket is intact with no damage, then your filter internals have a leak. Either the cartridges are not seated on the manifolds snuggly, the o-ring on the bottom manifold is damaged, or the air relief assembly on the center pipe is leaking.

 

[tradewinds]

TW,

Most likely your MPV is the right one, but it would make sense to make sure.. Go look at it and record all the Part numbers you see and let us know what they are.

Even God can't tell the difference between a pool with a large cartridge filter and one the has a DE filter. Something else made you pool clearer...

Thanks,

Jim R.

The sticker on it said for Quad DE before it faded. I'll take a look for the Pentair number on it tomorrow.

Why would they still make DE filters then? Given the additional steps and DE being outlaw in to send down drains etc., why would it still be around? That was another factor on why I got it, if 20-years have passed and it still is around, there must be a good reason to have to deal with the additional steps and costs of the media...right?

 

[tradewinds]

If DE is entering your pool and you can confirm all the plumbing is correct and the MPV spider gasket is intact with no damage, then your filter internals have a leak. Either the cartridges are not seated on the manifolds snuggly, the o-ring on the bottom manifold is damaged, or the air relief assembly on the center pipe is leaking.

Now, I did notice that the air relief filter was slightly deformed but since it didn't have an o-ring, I assumed it was ok to allow some media to move pass it.

I check the MPV spider gasket - looks like new with now damage. I clean it out also.
When I cleaned the internals, I reseated everything, o-ring on bottom looks good.

I am not sure how to isolate without popping $20 on 10lbs media each time I have to open it up.

 

[Jimrahbe]

why would it still be around?

TW,

For people like you and me...

I have two rent house pools that have DE filters. I had them before I built the pool at my house. I had only used DE filter and thought they were the best. I really, really wanted a DE filter at my house, but the City said it had to be plumbed into the sewer, which we could not easily do. So... I was "Forced" to go with a large Cartridge filter. It is now about 10 years later and I am so glad that I did not go with a DE filter..

Cartridge filters have dirt simple plumbing.. No MPV to go bad, leak or hard to turn. Very low back pressure.. my filter pressure is about one lb. And the best part is no DE to buy or mess with.

I cannot see any difference in the water quality between my DE filtered pools and my cartridge filtered pool. The rent house pools are still DE, but no longer have their backwash valves.. On all three of the pools I just open and the clean the filters twice a year.. But this is really due to having large VS pumps that runs at low RPMs, most of the time.

If I build 100 more pools they will all have large cartridge filters.


I thought your equipment was new... If your equipment is old enough that the labels have faded, I doubt your filter is plumbed backwards.. When they are plumbed backwards the cartridges have obvious defects, and last less than a year.. They basically explode from the inside out..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tradewinds]

TW,

For people like you and me...

I have two rent house pools that have DE filters. I had them before I built the pool at my house. I had only used DE filter and thought they were the best. I really, really wanted a DE filter at my house, but the City said it had to be plumbed into the sewer, which we could not easily do. So... I was "Forced" to go with a large Cartridge filter. It is now about 10 years later and I am so glad that I did not go with a DE filter..

Cartridge filters have dirt simple plumbing.. No MPV to go bad, leak or hard to turn. Very low back pressure.. my filter pressure is about one lb. And the best part is no DE to buy or mess with.

I cannot see any difference in the water quality between my DE filtered pools and my cartridge filtered pool. The rent house pools are still DE, but no longer have their backwash valves.. On all three of the pools I just open and the clean the filters twice a year.. But this is really due to having large VS pumps that runs at low RPMs, most of the time.

If I build 100 more pools they will all have large cartridge filters.


I thought your equipment was new... If your equipment is old enough that the labels have faded, I doubt your filter is plumbed backwards.. When they are plumbed backwards the cartridges have obvious defects, and last less than a year.. They basically explode from the inside out..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Well, I so wish I had this discussion before if indeed that is the general consensus.

My equipment is new, that sticker that faded out was mostly only to ensure the builder etc. buys the correct one, it is basically a temporary paper sticker slapped on the item you can see from the photo. From what I understand, Pentair makes two types, one for DE and one for sand and the ports are flipped.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Don't be disappointed about your equipment. Your Pentair Quad DE filter is the gold standard for DE filters. I've had mine since 2015, when the pool was built, and have not needed to replace a part. The cartridges still filter as good as they did when they were new. The DE does create a little bit of extra work, but it does provide better filtering as well.

I do not have a multiport valve installed on my pool system. I'm not sure exactly how to diagnose this as a potential source for a DE leak, but this is where I would start. It sounds like you've already done troubleshooting inside of the filter and found no issues.

Are you sure what you're seeing is DE in the pool? I will say that each time I clean my filter, it will shoot a little DE out of the returns when I first started up and recoat the grids. However, it clears quickly and does not return.

 

[Jimrahbe]

it is basically a temporary paper sticker slapped on the item you can see from the photo.

TW,

Sounds like that was Pentair's fix to make sure the right MPV was installed... I like it... !!!

Basically the DE or Cartridge filter thing, is like the Ford vs. Chevy things.. It just depends on which you have.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I’ve had my QuadDE for 10 seasons now and it has worked flawlessly and has been mostly trouble free and low maintenance. I think I’ve replaced the high-flow air release valve twice ($30 for a new one versus trying to rebuild it on the cheap … I’ll just replace it thanks!) and I’ve had to replace the o-rings in my backwash slide valve once. Other than that, the internal cartridges are the originals ones that came with the unit and I simply tear it down once per year to clean it and add fresh DE. I never backwash. So as far as filters go, it’s been worth every penny.

Now, that said, when it does come time to replace it I will be replacing it with a cartridge filter. But that’s just because I don’t want to mess around with DE anymore.