DIY IG rehab, cement walls, vinyl liner - Pool Filled!!

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Sounds like you got a lot done. Don't forget to really pack gravel or sand tightly under the stairs for good support under foot.

I surely will. The support legs seem like a good design as well. There are six legs, two for each step spaced evenly at 32". Once the legs are set in concrete, it should be plenty sturdy, and the backfill will only improve things. After a few weeks of letting the dirt settle, I plan on pouring a cement collar to to the top of stairs that way I can continue the paver coping around the stairs.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

No more pool liner. Notice the trees on the left of the pool. Four of these trees are either all dead or mostly dead, and therefore need to come down before the new liner goes in.

Got a few deliveries today. Got a pallet of pavers, a yard of crushed 3/4 red stone for the front beds, and a yard of fine mason's sand to regrade the pool. We also got our new pool stairs in. The bill of lading read 293 Lbs, but half of that must have been the pallets and packaging.

With the help of my family, we were able to take down the four questionable trees, dig out the old steps, and drop the new steps into the shallow end. My poor dad and brother Dave both managed to injur their backs wrestlin' the trees around.

New steps are in place. What an improvement over the old ones.

Since I couldnt get underneath the stairs without moving an unthinkable amount of dirt, we decided to use composite decking ballusters to secure the stairs to the sides. For each side, we screwed one 2x2 to the stairs, then drilled and screwed another 2x2 to the cement walls. Once we slid the stairs into place, we face screwed the two ballusters together. Seems pretty secure so far.

Here we are mixing the "Concreto" to set the six support legs in under the stairs.

The stairs are secured and cemented in. We pulled the remaining 2x6 from the top of the concrete walls. I'm nearly done cutting down any remaining nails still protruding from the walls. We are ready to start laying the concrete block. Notice the trees to the left are no longer standing.

 

[kimkats]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

WOW! That is going great! Just make sure to fill behind/under/around the steps until no more will fit! Then put some more it!

Good work!

kim

 

[duraleigh]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Said it before, but your work is first class.

I have taken out more huge pines and big white oaks than I care to count.......I understand the scope of taking out those four trees. Take lots of Vitamin I (ibuprofen)

either all dead or mostly dead

borrowed from Miracle Max in "Princess Bride"...one of my favorites.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Thanks guys. Moving along nicely. Just got a call from the freight company, and my liner and wall foam will be arriving tomorrow. That's the last of the supplies I need, at least I hope. I cant wait to see how much I can get done this weekend, lets hope the weather holds out!

borrowed from Miracle Max in "Princess Bride"...one of my favorites.

Have fun storming the castle!

 

[janthony]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Looking good! Tip on the wall foam: Invest in a few extra cans of spray adhesive and use on both sides-the wall and the foam. When I did this it really helped it sray in place, but I ran out of adhesive. Also its almost impossible to get it on perfectly without some small bubbles, but don't worry the water will flatten everything out nicely. Wow was I nervous when I made the first main drain cut in my liner. Good luck on that one.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Thanks, I bought four 20 oz cans for 96 linear feet of foam. Hopefully that will be enough.

My next step is laying the cement block. I have to finish cutting the nails and then sanding down what seems to be paint on top of some of the walls. Do you guys have any suggestions for laying the block? I bought type S mortar, but do i need any additive or scratch coat to get it to stick to the poured walls or block? I dont think I need anything since they dont use it to lay cider block. Ill just make sure I keep the walls and the block wet as I lay it down.

 

[keithw]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

If your concerned about getting a good bond on the pavers. it can't hurt to pick up a gallon of concrete bonding agent at H.D. It is approx $11.00 gallon and you mix it with water. You paint it onto the surface and pavers right before putting down your mortar. It was recommended to me on the John Bridge tiling forum when I put down a flagstone deck onto rough cement (I used S mortar as well) and I haven't had a single popped flag so far.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

it can't hurt to pick up a gallon of concrete bonding agent at H.D.

Thanks, I was just reading up on that. Sounds like cheap insurance. Ill coat the top of the existing concrete walls as well as the new cement block thats replacing the 2x6 lumber.

As far as the pavers, its looking more likely that Ill be using thinset in lieu of mortar. While I was originally planning on using the type s for both the paver bed and the grout, my wife and I are thinking about going with a nice sanded tile grout instead.

The liner track height means I need at minimum 5/16" bed. Since Id like to keep the pavers as tight as possible, I think thinset is a better way to go. I feel like thinset is a little stronger than mortar and ill be able to get the grout gaps a little more even. I'm thinking a 1/2 inch notch trowel, plus back buttering each paver should be good. Ill try and get the bed thickness just over the height of the liner track.

What do you guys think?

 

[duraleigh]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

I feel like thinset is a little stronger than mortar

Quite a bit. More importantly, use a latex fortified and you get just a bit of flex. Much better choice.

I used built-up thinset almost 1/2" on my water line tiles and it was a bit of a PITA getting it on vertically but you'll have no issue on a horizontal plane.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

I like to work with custom's VersaBond thinset. Its polymer fortified as far as I know. Its not as flexible as FlexBond, but I cant see spending 30+ bucks a bag when Versabond is only 13.

 

[duraleigh]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

I used Versabond...it is fortified with latex. I had VERY good luck with it.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

OK, than that's settled.

Now here's another question. I noticed some chalky white substance on top of the concrete walls, primarily in the shallow end. I thought it might be paint, but as I was grinding it off last night, I think it might be limestone leaching up from the concrete, or possibly from when it was first poured. Its soft enough so that I can scratch it easily with a screwdriver. I plan to wire brush off as much as I can. Any idea what it might be?

 

[duraleigh]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

efflorescence probably. Water gets behind the block and dissolves minerals and pushes them to the surface where they precipitate.

If you ignore them, they can get difficult. Wire brushing as they appear is best. It can also travel through the grout of finish tile.

It may not be that because that process never goes up but, rather, travels horizontally.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Well I dont see the usual metallic sheen of effloresence that you see in basements or on a boiler. But i know what you mean. It does seem almost like the limestone separates and worked itself up to the top. But if it took 30 years to get that bad, Im not too worried. Im sure a good wire brushing will be all I need.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

The liner arrived Friday, and we got a bunch of work done over the long weekend. I was hoping to get a little further along than this, but we had a washout Saturday and decided to spend the way sanding down the wood floors in the dining room instead. Once the weather cleared and we could get back to work on the pool, things moved a little more slowly than I would have liked.

The first few concrete blocks go down at the deep end of the pool. We cut four 2-foot lintels out of 1/8 aluminum stock to help support the block above the skimmer.

500+ pounds of mortar later, and we have the concrete block down. We coated the existing walls with a slurry of mortar and concrete adhesion additive to help the bond to the 30 year old concrete. It all seems pretty solid, thoug things could stand to be a little straigher and more level. If I were to do it over, I would probably just use thinset between the walls and block, that way things woudl have been a little more level.

Ive been looking for an excuse to finally put my mini drill press together, but I never had anything to drill. That changed this past week when I pre drilled each 8 foot section of liner track every 8 inches. This made installing the track so much faster, since metal drills dont like drilling through concrete, and masonry drills dont like drilling through metal.

The aluminum liner track starts going in. We used liquid nails between the track and the concrete block, then we sunk in masonry screws every 8 inches. Finally put that hammer drill to good use, and I'm proud to sya I didnt break a single bit this time.

All the liner track is in place. Its not very straight, both side to side, as well as vertically, thanks to my very poor job laying teh concrete block. I did my best to shim the track using miscelaneous pennies, nickles and dimes, but there is still a bit of visable runout. Im going to have to do a bangup job on the coping to try and redeem myself and make things look a little more straight.

I really wish things had turned out a little straighter than they are. I really didnt like the way the concrete block turned out. Whats more, in my haste, I put the block overlapping the wall by about 3/8 inch to try and replicate the location of the liner track when there was a wood beam instead (nailed to side of wood instead of top). Had I re-measured before laying the block, I would have refrained from adding any overhand to the side walls since the walls were exactly 16' which is how I ordered the liner. I got so caught up in recreating the location of the liner track, I simply didn't consider that the new liner is based off my wall measurements. I'm sure Ill be able to make up 3/8 on each side, especially since the stairs cutout will let me take in or let out liner bead as necessary. Live and learn.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

After having a day to sit back and think about things, two things are really eating away at me.

Firstly that I layed the block with an overlap, reducing the width to 15' 11" instead of the full 16. Its not so much the width that's bothersome, but the fact that the liner will bow back out below the overhang.

Secondly, the verical as well as side to side abortions in the liner track mean that the vinyl just wont ever hang right.

I think I have resigned myself to take out all the screws, remove the liner track, scrape off all the liquid nails and try again. I plan to cut the concrete block flush with the wall, using a diamond blade in the skil saw. That should enlarge the pool dimensions back to the full 16 feet, remove the overhang, as well as remove most of the side to side runout. After this is done, I plan reapply the liquid nails, and lay the aluminum liner track down. Rather than immediately drill and screw it down like last time, I will instead let the liquid nails cure overnight before screwing. This should allow the liner track to stay flat, rather than follow the inconsistencies in the block. The voids will be filled with liquid nails. The following day, when I drill and screw the track again, the liquid nails wont squeeze out of the gaps, but instead should support the track by filling the voids in low spots.

What do you guys think, am I making mountains out of molehills? Should I set myself back another two solid days worth of work to try and cover up the mistakes I've already made?

 

[kimkats]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Will it matter in 10 years?? It is bothering you right now so......I would fix it while you can. Think of if it does mess up the liner over time. Better safe than sorry. BUT that is easy for me to say as I do not have to do any of the work.

 

[GuitsBoy]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

Will it matter in 10 years?? It is bothering you right now so......I would fix it while you can. Think of if it does mess up the liner over time. Better safe than sorry. BUT that is easy for me to say as I do not have to do any of the work.

Well, I guess that depends on the quality of my work, but hopefully I wont have to touch the pool for another 12 to 15 years, and then it will hopefully only be a new liner and nothing else. Yes, its bothering me, so I have no choice but to redo some of it. I unscrewed one eight foot section of liner track this morning, and to my surprise, the liquid nails was still soft. I easily scraped it right off. I guess all the rain has kept it from curing, which happens to work to my advantage this time. I'll remove all the liner track tonight after work, and then Ill get to work on cutting back the concrete block in the coming days. Hopefully I can get things back to where they were this weekend.

Im going to try and snap a chalk line, and cut through the 1-5/8" concrete block with a diamond blade in the skil saw. Failing that, I could try using the 4" angle grinder as deep as I can get it, then snapping it off with a hammer and chisel, but Id prefer the former.

Then when I'm ready to reinstall the liner track, I'm considering using latex caulk instead of the liquid nails, since the liquid nails hardly cured at all after nearly 3 days. Any suggestions?

 

[duraleigh]

Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

and cut through the 1-5/8" concrete block with a diamond blade in the skil saw

That'll work if you have a fairly robust saw (like a Milwaukee) and a new diamond blade.

The dust will fly, believe me. You actually might need a second blade for that much cutting. It will be slow and you will be unable to "hurry" the blade with force.