CSI and ph

[302harrison]

So we have a plaster pool. I recently brought up the calcium level to 280, but when I did, it threw off the csi result so that it now says “potential for scaling”. I brought the PH down to 7.8, and that made the csi fine. However, within a couple of days, PH was back up to 8.2. My pool tends to like an 8.2 Ph, and if Iower it, it will quickly drift back up. I don’t mind lowering it with dry acid, but I just read that you shouldn’t use dry acid if you have plaster. And I hate using and storing muriatic acid.

Anyway, I think if I let the calcium level get lower, the 8.2 Ph will be fine. Just wondering if I should continue fighting the Ph in the meantime or if .33 is not that bad of a csi level. Thank you!

FC 8
PH 8.1
TA 80
CH 280
CYA 70
Water temp 81
CSI .33

 

[pjt]

Keep adjusting pH using MA. It will slowly bring down your TA, which in turn will curb pH rise. A TA of 50 is perfectly fine.

I hate using and storing muriatic acid

Can you explain why? MA certainly requires care in handling, but it's manageable.

 

[Asherk74]

Is CSI testing necessary?
Its not included in the TF100 kit, or just keeping calcium and PH/TA good the goal

 

[PoolStored]

Is CSI testing necessary?
Its not included in the TF100 kit, or just keeping calcium and PH/TA good the goal

Necessary if you have one of these:
– Pools who tend to have extremely hard water or excessively high alkalinity (potential for scale)
– Pools that tend to have naturally soft water or low alkalinity (potential for erosion-plaster only)
– Salt Water Generator (SWG) owners (scale on cell plates)
– Pools with waterline tile (potential for scale or erosion)
– Newly plastered pools; especially those recently completed and closed before winter (potential for dramatic pH increases)

It is not a "test," it is calculated in PoolMath

More info:

Calcium Saturation Index (CSI)

How is CSI calculated? Very simple – use our PoolMath tool. To ensure long plaster life and save money, click here to learn more.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

So we have a plaster pool. I recently brought up the calcium level to 280, but when I did, it threw off the csi result so that it now says “potential for scaling”. I brought the PH down to 7.8, and that made the csi fine. However, within a couple of days, PH was back up to 8.2. My pool tends to like an 8.2 Ph, and if Iower it, it will quickly drift back up. I don’t mind lowering it with dry acid, but I just read that you shouldn’t use dry acid if you have plaster. And I hate using and storing muriatic acid.

Anyway, I think if I let the calcium level get lower, the 8.2 Ph will be fine. Just wondering if I should continue fighting the Ph in the meantime or if .33 is not that bad of a csi level. Thank you!

FC 8
PH 8.1
TA 80
CH 280
CYA 70
Water temp 81
CSI .33

When I purchased my home with a four-year-old pool, the plaster was covered with calcium. As was the edge tile. Really bad. The same "pool guys" that let it get that way offered to "fix" it with an acid wash, which then completely destroyed the plaster finish. Partly due to their ineptitude, and partly due to the years of chemical imbalance. Fast-forward past the litigation and I now have a 5-year-old pebble finish that still looks like new, and just a hint of deposit just now starting to show up on the edge tile. Following TFP guidelines to the letter since day 1 of the new pebble made all the difference. That means using their recommended levels. All the levels, not just CSI. For me, that means pH in the mid 7s, and CH right in the middle of the acceptable range (350-550). I use muriatic acid to keep my pH right where the CSI calc will come to about -0.2.

My goal is to keep the finish looking pristine, but more importantly to help it last as long as possible. This round of pebble was about $9K. If I have to do it again, I expect it'll be $20K by that time, maybe even more. Maybe a lot more. No thanks.

I'm only basing my opinion on one pool. But I have direct evidence of what happens to a pool when you balance it properly, and when you don't.

I'm not tellin' ya what to do, I'm just tellin' ya what works. I don't like handling MA either, so I use an automated acid injection system. Don't use dry acid. You can also control pH with CO2 injection (look ma, no acid), so that's another alternative.

You didn't really ask a question. You're sort'a looking for someone to "OK" you fudging the numbers. Sorry, I can't help you with that. Others here might...

 

[302harrison]

Keep adjusting pH using MA. It will slowly bring down your TA, which in turn will curb pH rise. A TA of 50 is perfectly fine.


Can you explain why? MA certainly requires care in handling, but it's manageable.

I don’t like having to wear goggles and gloves and the strong smell of it. And I don’t like storing it because it can eat any metal that’s near it. I tried storing the tub inside a plastic bag, which I saw recommended somewhere, but that made the smell really strong when I would untie the bag. I guess I’d better start using it again, though.

 

[302harrison]

Necessary if you have one of these:
– Pools who tend to have extremely hard water or excessively high alkalinity (potential for scale)
– Pools that tend to have naturally soft water or low alkalinity (potential for erosion-plaster only)
– Salt Water Generator (SWG) owners (scale on cell plates)
– Pools with waterline tile (potential for scale or erosion)
– Newly plastered pools; especially those recently completed and closed before winter (potential for dramatic pH increases)

It is not a "test," it is calculated in PoolMath

More info:

Calcium Saturation Index (CSI)

How is CSI calculated? Very simple – use our PoolMath tool. To ensure long plaster life and save money, click here to learn more.

www.troublefreepool.com

Mine is not a newly plastered pool, but it does have plaster. Maybe I don’t need to be concerned about the csi being a little bit off? But I definitely don’t want to damage the plaster if I can help it.

 

[Dirk]

I don’t like having to wear goggles and gloves and the strong smell of it. And I don’t like storing it because it can eat any metal that’s near it. I tried storing the tub inside a plastic bag, which I saw recommended somewhere, but that made the smell really strong when I would untie the bag. I guess I’d better start using it again, though.

Buy 14% acid and store it in an all-resin deck box outside. Goggles are prudent. You won't need gloves with 14%.

Put the jug in a bucket before you move it. Carry it to the pool in the bucket. Place the bucket on the edge of the pool. Remove the cap and lift the jug out over the water, and measure/dispense the acid while over the water. You can do that while holding your breath if you're quick about it. Then place the jug back in the bucket, replace the cap. Then back to the deck box. Your jug will never be over the deck, and you'll never spill any that way.

Suncast makes all-resin deck boxes. Not even the hinges are metal. Mine holds five gallons and the bucket. You can fashion a lock if you've got kids running around. I used to use gloves regularly, and sometimes still do, but often don't. As I mentioned before, I have an acid dosing system, so I only handle acid about four or five times a year. Some of Suncast's boxes have metal hinges, others don't, so you have to find the one that's all-resin. You can order it online, or find them at the big-box stores. That's where I found an all-plastic bucket, too.

Don't store acid inside. It'll eat everything. Outside, find a corner away from other metal things, and where a breeze can ventilate the area.

DO NOT store chlorine in the same box. Really bad. Best to store chlorine in the garage where it can stay out of the sun, acid outside (unaffected by light or heat).

Deck Boxes - Outdoor Storage - Suncast® Corporation

www.suncast.com

I think Suncast still makes this model.

 

[mgtfp]

You won't need gloves with 14%.

Even with full strength, I'd say gloves are overdressing. Safety glasses are mandatory, you don't want it in your eyes. But a splash on the hands is not that dramatic, just rinse it off in the pool straight away.

The fumes are unpleasant. Which is a good thing, because it stops you from breathing them in.

But good suggestion - half strength muriatic acid is a much better solution than dry acid, if full strength is not an option.

 

[302harrison]

Thanks so much! Great tips!