Get some sequesterant in the water to capture the metal or the ozone and chlorine will cause the metal to come out of solution again, causing the stains to form somewhere else.
Scott
Scott
copper stain on new plaster
- Thread starter pbrunet
- Start date
For a 15500 gallon pool how much dry acid should i use to treat the copper stains. Will the pool be swim safe while treating it ?
I will add metal hold which is the same as a sequesterant correct ?
I will add metal hold which is the same as a sequesterant correct ?
I've never heard of metal hold. We recommend sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives.
Doing an acid treatment on the entire pool is a little risky. It can damage the plaster. The largest problem is if you have a heater with a copper heat exchanger. If you do have one, you either need to bypass it, or you can't do the full treatment.
Before you go that direction, you might want to try a very mild acid treatment, add extra sequestrant and just lower the PH down to 7.0, and see if the stains start to fade.
Doing an acid treatment on the entire pool is a little risky. It can damage the plaster. The largest problem is if you have a heater with a copper heat exchanger. If you do have one, you either need to bypass it, or you can't do the full treatment.
Before you go that direction, you might want to try a very mild acid treatment, add extra sequestrant and just lower the PH down to 7.0, and see if the stains start to fade.
Ok, its actually "metal free" from the "natural chemistry" line of products. I will probably do a mild acid treatment with the Dry Acid unless I can't bypass the copper heat exchanger...... im sure thats what put me in this predicament in the first place.
For a "mild treatment" on a 15500 gallon pool how much of the Dry acid would you recommend ?
Thanks again for all the help ...... I'm getting smarter by the day.
For a "mild treatment" on a 15500 gallon pool how much of the Dry acid would you recommend ?
Thanks again for all the help ...... I'm getting smarter by the day.
Metal Free is not one of the sequestrants we recommend. The results are just not as good as with the HEDP and phosphonic acid sequestrants.
The amount of acid required depends on your current PH, TA, and Borate levels.
The amount of acid required depends on your current PH, TA, and Borate levels.
pH is 7.2, TA is 105 ppm and borate is 15 ppm
Total Chlorine is 3 ppm
hardness is 430 ppm
CYA is 100 ppm
TDS is 1000
I will track down some HEDP but for now I added my Metal Free.
Total Chlorine is 3 ppm
hardness is 430 ppm
CYA is 100 ppm
TDS is 1000
I will track down some HEDP but for now I added my Metal Free.
Not sure if my last reply actually posted
So here we go........ i realize that my options are to either acid wash the plaster, paint the plaster or just replaster the pool a darker color.
Any suggestions or experience with these options.
thanks
So here we go........ i realize that my options are to either acid wash the plaster, paint the plaster or just replaster the pool a darker color.
Any suggestions or experience with these options.
thanks
Painting is not a good deal. Paint doesn't last very long and ends up being more expensive than plaster and way more of a pain because you have to re-paint so many times. A professional acid wash is way less expensive than fresh plaster, so that is the best way to go.
thanks jasonlion for the reply
i have heard that about paint but i can't get real comfortable about another "white" replaster when i have not found the root cause of the current copper problem.
I guess I need to look at "darker plaster" if I do go with the replaster approach. I mean even if i get copper staining again in the future on a new dark plaster it would hopefully not even be noticeable if that makes any sense.
your thoughts ?
i have heard that about paint but i can't get real comfortable about another "white" replaster when i have not found the root cause of the current copper problem.
I guess I need to look at "darker plaster" if I do go with the replaster approach. I mean even if i get copper staining again in the future on a new dark plaster it would hopefully not even be noticeable if that makes any sense.
your thoughts ?
I recommend you take a deep breath, and follow the advice of the people on the forum for getting the water dialed into the numbers recommended for your type of pool. Once there, let's try to clean up the stains. Replastering a pool that is less that a year old just doesn't seems like a logical solution right now...and I think it's overkill. I have an A&S pool and you need to understand that they dug and put it in, but it's up to you to understand the chemistry of your water and how to take care of it. My pool builder lessons were all about taking care of the plaster (add muriatic everyday for the first week) instead of how to take care of the water.
Can you please post a listing of your equipment in your signature? Did A&S also install a Nature2 cartridge in your pool? That has minerals in it too that can stain. I have a salt system and for some reason they installed a chlorine puck feeder....logic isn't always applied at sales time. Once we know all of your equipment and your numbers we'll dial you in. I think to newbies, it sometimes sounds as if the forum is all about sales of the TF test kits (so sayeth the last newbie I sent here). If you feel that way then buy the Taylor-2006 and let's get beyond that point. Either way, the people on here just need to know accurate numbers to dial you in.
Snewo
Can you please post a listing of your equipment in your signature? Did A&S also install a Nature2 cartridge in your pool? That has minerals in it too that can stain. I have a salt system and for some reason they installed a chlorine puck feeder....logic isn't always applied at sales time. Once we know all of your equipment and your numbers we'll dial you in. I think to newbies, it sometimes sounds as if the forum is all about sales of the TF test kits (so sayeth the last newbie I sent here). If you feel that way then buy the Taylor-2006 and let's get beyond that point. Either way, the people on here just need to know accurate numbers to dial you in.
Snewo
I also believe you should slow down a bit and stop just throwing stuff in there. The folks here can help you get those stains taken care of in a very timely manner, but only if you follow their advice and don't add anything that is not suggested. Often times the stuff you buy at the pool store will further complicate the problems you are having. Good luck!
Thanks,
you are right I am a bit anxious as you can probably understand being such a new pool.
Snewo..... no Nature 2 cartridge was installed only the housing where it would be placed if in use.
Also, how do I edit my signature profile ??
you are right I am a bit anxious as you can probably understand being such a new pool.
Snewo..... no Nature 2 cartridge was installed only the housing where it would be placed if in use.
Also, how do I edit my signature profile ??
OK,
I have included a recent pool chemistry analysis as well as adding the pool equipment information in my signature.
I tried to add a picture but it was not allowed........ maximum size is 512 KB
Question? I have a Katchakid safety net which has at leat 50 pool anchors around the perimeter of the pool. could these anchors possibly contain copper which is leaching into the pool ? just a thought.
Also, I run the heater to keep the pool around 88 degrees when we use it on the weekends.
pH is 7.2, TA is 105 ppm and borate is 15 ppm
Total Chlorine is 3 ppm
hardness is 430 ppm
CYA is 100 ppm
TDS is 1000
I have included a recent pool chemistry analysis as well as adding the pool equipment information in my signature.
I tried to add a picture but it was not allowed........ maximum size is 512 KB
Question? I have a Katchakid safety net which has at leat 50 pool anchors around the perimeter of the pool. could these anchors possibly contain copper which is leaching into the pool ? just a thought.
Also, I run the heater to keep the pool around 88 degrees when we use it on the weekends.
pH is 7.2, TA is 105 ppm and borate is 15 ppm
Total Chlorine is 3 ppm
hardness is 430 ppm
CYA is 100 ppm
TDS is 1000
There isn't supposed to be any easy way for water that may have picked up metal from the anchors to get in the pool. Water on the deck should flow away from the pool.
If CYA is really 100, you want to be maintaining FC around 8 to 13. 3 is way too low.
If CYA is really 100, you want to be maintaining FC around 8 to 13. 3 is way too low.
Thanks Jason,
I will keep that in mind..... I have a pool service now as well and they decided to use a pool floating chlorine basket as the means for distributing the chlorine into the pool instead of the "chlorine distributor near the pump".
Not sure if they check the CYA level...... i will certainly bring that up.... charge for monthly service is $155
Maybe the attempts I made (in the past...havent done anything lately) with high acid treatment without avoiding the heater coils is a problem. I have no way currently avoiding the coils in the flow diagram.
oh well, copper stains seem to be getting a little worse unfortunately.
thanks again
paul
tried to attach a picture but it rejected it do to size.
I will keep that in mind..... I have a pool service now as well and they decided to use a pool floating chlorine basket as the means for distributing the chlorine into the pool instead of the "chlorine distributor near the pump".
Not sure if they check the CYA level...... i will certainly bring that up.... charge for monthly service is $155
Maybe the attempts I made (in the past...havent done anything lately) with high acid treatment without avoiding the heater coils is a problem. I have no way currently avoiding the coils in the flow diagram.
oh well, copper stains seem to be getting a little worse unfortunately.
thanks again
paul
tried to attach a picture but it rejected it do to size.
Oh, and the areas where i did a concentrated acid "spot check" both AA and dry acid are still very white and clear so maybe there is hope
If your CYA is really 100 that floater is not going to keep your FC high enough in my opinion. This will ultimately cause more problems when organics are introduced to the pool bye mother nature or bather load. According to this chart Chlorine/CYA ChartYou should maintain a FC of 7 - 12 ppm. I don't think the pool service is the answer. You are paying them in 2 months what most here would spend all year on their pool.
Sorry I don't know how to help with those stains, but good luck.
Sorry I don't know how to help with those stains, but good luck.