Converting Existing Gunite Pool - Advice Needed

[shellydsizemore]

We are on our 5th season with a gunite pool that came with our house. Our current setup is a SWG, full sun, variable speed pump & sand filter. Filter, pump and salt cell all replaced 2 years ago.

We have been battling black algae. We have slammed, scrubbed, vac'd, etc., nonstop for MONTHS. It is minimal at this point, but that is the issue. During all of this, our pool is cleaner from debris than it has ever been. So we were able to better notice the condition of our plaster and have realized it is time to replaster or we'll never win this battle against the algae. Too many small areas where the plaster is starting to flake. There are too many areas for it to latch onto and continue to keep coming back.

So my husband asked me to get quotes on a replaster job as well as converting it to a vinyl liner pool. I'm looking for feedback on pros, cons, what else we would have to convert (pump, filter, SWG, etc.) and whether or not we would regret it.

 

[Texas Splash]

If you elect to have the shell lined with vinyl, there's nothing else you need to do other than fill it back up and balance the water. Your equipment doesn't have to change. Same thing if you elect to have it re-plastered. It will have an initial plaster start-up process, wait 30days before using the SWG or adding salt to the new plaster, then you're back in business.

As for the algae, I don't doubt that your old plaster is susceptible to allowing algae to find tiny places to call it home. However, your Poolmath logs also show that the FC has been allowed to fall much too low at times over the past month. That, combined with a CYA that is much too low for a salt pool, your FC (SWG) doesn't have a chance with our TX sun. You mentioned doing a SLAM, but I suspect you may not have
followed the SLAM Process page as designed passing all 3 SLAM criteria. You certainly should not have to go through this for months as you noted. That would be exhausting.

So you have choices for the pool surface. As for the algae, even if you think you have nothing to worry about, I suspect you may still have organics to deal with. If you don't believe a SLAM Process is in order right now, at the very least don an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test with your TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit. That is if you have one of those. Your signature is blank so we have no idea what type of stuff you have there.

Hope that helps. If you have more questions let us know.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[shellydsizemore]

If you elect to have the shell lined with vinyl, there's nothing else you need to do other than fill it back up and balance the water. Your equipment doesn't have to change. Same thing if you elect to have it re-plastered. It will have an initial plaster start-up process, wait 30days before using the SWG or adding salt to the new plaster, then you're back in business.

As for the algae, I don't doubt that your old plaster is susceptible to allowing algae to find tiny places to call it home. However, your Poolmath logs also show that the FC has been allowed to fall much too low at times over the past month. That, combined with a CYA that is much too low for a salt pool, your FC (SWG) doesn't have a chance with our TX sun. You mentioned doing a SLAM, but I suspect you may not have
followed the SLAM Process page as designed passing all 3 SLAM criteria. You certainly should not have to go through this for months as you noted. That would be exhausting.

So you have choices for the pool surface. As for the algae, even if you think you have nothing to worry about, I suspect you may still have organics to deal with. If you don't believe a SLAM Process is in order right now, at the very least don an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test with your TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit. That is if you have one of those. Your signature is blank so we have no idea what type of stuff you have there.

Hope that helps. If you have more questions let us know.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes, thanks to your help initially, I did do the SLAM process according to protocol, but had not purchased the subscription to log each test individually. So ALL of that work (on a day to day level) is logged elsewhere. We stopped slamming when we realized the condition of our plaster was not sound and were not seeing any change in the overnight loss tests and have mostly just been brushing, backwashing, vacuuming and dumping just enough liquid chlorine in to keep it at bay and not kill ourselves.

In the interim, we've also been weighing options on next steps. I kept the CYA level at 40 to lower the amount of chlorine needed, but did just add stabilizer recently, along with acid to adjust our pH and alkalinity, but have not done a full test on those since. So updates to come on the logs. I also need to clean those up as I did try to go back and add some logs after purchasing the subscription, but the dates & times are all off. I apologize!

But yes...we're at the point where we either have to replaster or convert to vinyl so I've just been trying to get thru day to day on the levels rather than trying to fix the problem. Our problem is officially not able to be fixed without some major work. At least not by us. I'm not a quitter by any means, but I've depleted everything I have in me to fight this battle with the condition our plaster is in. We have rust spots from the rebar and even some (just a few) exposed areas where you can see whatever is beneath the plaster. A rock? A piece of rebar? Who knows at this point? So we did stop slamming too early, but purposely so we could actually swim and enjoy it since the returning algae is in those very small areas of flaking and when I do get in, I'm still brushing and rubbing with a chlorine puck.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the setback in the middle of all of this mess of a very severe storm that resulted in not being able to run our pump for about 4 days. So yeah. I'm over it since we made the decision to replaster or convert, lol. I've actually LOST weight from all of the hard work! But I'm now confident, thanks to this group, on caring for a pool in better shape than our current one!

Also, apologies on the signature. I guess I'm not sure how to add that. Taylor kit on hand since before my first post over on the water balance thread!

 

[Texas Splash]

No worries. If you have more questions along the way let us know. Have a nice weekend.

 

[mknauss]

I guess I'm not sure how to add that.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Bperry]

Yes, thanks to your help initially, I did do the SLAM process according to protocol, but had not purchased the subscription to log each test individually. So ALL of that work (on a day to day level) is logged elsewhere. We stopped slamming when we realized the condition of our plaster was not sound and were not seeing any change in the overnight loss tests and have mostly just been brushing, backwashing, vacuuming and dumping just enough liquid chlorine in to keep it at bay and not kill ourselves.

In the interim, we've also been weighing options on next steps. I kept the CYA level at 40 to lower the amount of chlorine needed, but did just add stabilizer recently, along with acid to adjust our pH and alkalinity, but have not done a full test on those since. So updates to come on the logs. I also need to clean those up as I did try to go back and add some logs after purchasing the subscription, but the dates & times are all off. I apologize!

But yes...we're at the point where we either have to replaster or convert to vinyl so I've just been trying to get thru day to day on the levels rather than trying to fix the problem. Our problem is officially not able to be fixed without some major work. At least not by us. I'm not a quitter by any means, but I've depleted everything I have in me to fight this battle with the condition our plaster is in. We have rust spots from the rebar and even some (just a few) exposed areas where you can see whatever is beneath the plaster. A rock? A piece of rebar? Who knows at this point? So we did stop slamming too early, but purposely so we could actually swim and enjoy it since the returning algae is in those very small areas of flaking and when I do get in, I'm still brushing and rubbing with a chlorine puck.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the setback in the middle of all of this mess of a very severe storm that resulted in not being able to run our pump for about 4 days. So yeah. I'm over it since we made the decision to replaster or convert, lol. I've actually LOST weight from all of the hard work! But I'm now confident, thanks to this group, on caring for a pool in better shape than our current one!

Also, apologies on the signature. I guess I'm not sure how to add that. Taylor kit on hand since before my first post over on the water balance thread!

Did you realize it’s safe to swim during a SLAM? There’s no reason to stop doing the SLAM unless you’re ready to replaster now. Keep swimming until you decide.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Converting to vinyl isn’t that simple. The return fittings, skimmers, light housings, etc, all have to be converted to vinyl compatible ones. As well, the coping and tile will have to be removed to add a track for the vinyl to lock into. You’re taking about a lot of demolition work that’s going to wind up costing you as much as just getting the pool replastered.

Get quotes for plaster jobs that include a FULL CHIP OUT of the old plaster. Skim coats are not what you want. The chip out will add to the cost as it is all labor but it is worth it to start with a fresh substrate (the finite shell) rather than skimming new plaster over old plaster.

 

[kimkats]

That is a hard one.............I will say what Matt aka @JoyfulNoise has to say rings true. I say go for a new plaster job!

 

[shellydsizemore]

Did you realize it’s safe to swim during a SLAM? There’s no reason to stop doing the SLAM unless you’re ready to replaster now. Keep swimming until you decide.

Yes, and we have. But we are not enjoying it anymore. And we ARE ready to replaster, at least towards the end of the season or whatever the appropriate time of year is. We are both burned out and it's consumed our free time. I'm losing sleep over it. It's insanely stressful. So we pulled back on slamming and are just maintaining/keeping it at bay now, which is fine as the remnants are small enough that it isn't blatantly obvious to outsiders.

Converting to vinyl isn’t that simple. The return fittings, skimmers, light housings, etc, all have to be converted to vinyl compatible ones. As well, the coping and tile will have to be removed to add a track for the vinyl to lock into. You’re taking about a lot of demolition work that’s going to wind up costing you as much as just getting the pool replastered.

Get quotes for plaster jobs that include a FULL CHIP OUT of the old plaster. Skim coats are not what you want. The chip out will add to the cost as it is all labor but it is worth it to start with a fresh substrate (the finite shell) rather than skimming new plaster over old plaster.

It's not the up front cost so much as the long term outlook. We've been wanting to remodel the outside area since buying the house anyway and make some changes. Just thought we had another couple of years before we'd do anything. But with a recent lawsuit settlement finished, we do have the extra money to go ahead and do it now, so we want to do it right. It's less about a quick & cheap fix and more about making sure we make the right decision since we'll be stuck with it for a good long while. One of our ports (not really sure what it's for, but my husband does) doesn't work properly, the return jets won't adjust anymore, the light works but doesn’t change colors anymore and the pool itself needs a face-lift. It is tired and past time, really, lol.

That is a hard one.............I will say what Matt aka @JoyfulNoise has to say rings true. I say go for a new plaster job!

After our recent experience with black algae and the porous surface of plaster, along with many scuffed limbs (children, lol), I think we might have a bit of PTSD (pool traumatic stess disorder) when it comes to plaster. I know there is still a possibility of black algae on vinyl, but it's a much smaller possibility. We've (okay mostly my husband until this year) dealt with our share of algae over the last 5 seasons. Mustard algae was awful! But nothing has compared to what we've gone thru this season. But I'm also aware that vinyl has its own share of problems. My parents have had an above ground pool for almost 30 years, so I'm familiar with the various issues they've dealt with. But I also know they are likely different from what we might face with an in-ground pool.

Overall, I'm just looking for feedback on pros vs cons on maintaining a plaster or vinyl in-ground pool with our current SWG setup and chemicals, but also issues faced on each. Like holes in the liner. Or wrinkles. Will my newly purchased dolphin work the same?

 

[proavia]

An inground pool in Texas - especially the lower half of the state - would be better with a plaster/pebble type finish.
If you maintain it to TFP parameters, you shouldn't have any algae and a pebbletype surface should last 30 years. A liner wouldn't last anywhere near that long.

There are several pebble type finishes that are quite bit smoother than the original Pebble Tec.
As Matt said - a FULL chip out is necessary. The fittings and light can be replaced as part of the replaster process.

Post a few pictures of your pool, deck area and equipment pad. Others may have ideas to help you decide.