Considerations for Adding an SWG

[dailygenesis]

I'm looking to have some plumbing work done to remove the DEL AOP system, Tab Feeder, and Pool Tiger our PB installed. I'm considering adding an SWG at the same time, since it will be more efficient to have it all done at once. But, I'm a little hesitant for the following reasons. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this that might help me decide whether to go for it with the SWG or just keep doing what I'm doing with LC, which is working well.

FYI the SWG that would be installed would be the Hayward Aquarite AQR940 (which uses the TCELL940) - based on all the research I've done this seems like really my best option unless I want to change automation platforms.

Reasons I'm hesitant to add the SWG:

1. CH levels -- from what I'm reading here, I would want my CH levels to be under 450 with an SWG. I have struggled to keep mine under 600 (currently 625). I plan to do another water replacement once the water temperature goes down enough for me to do this in place, but even if I replace half my water it'll bring me down just under 400, and with fill water at 150 it builds over time. I've been doing OK keeping CSI in check even with high CH levels. Does this work the same with an SWG or is the CH going to be an issue even if I keep CSI in check?
2. Winterization -- we leave our pool open all year. We do get some freezing temps but last year did ok by heating the water, covering the equipment, and keeping water flowing when it got cold. Does the SWG add any additional risk in the winter, or is it just about the same risk as all the other equipment?
3. Changing more than one variable at once seems riskier. Things are going well with my current system using LC. Deleting the AOP and just continuing with LC seems less disruptive and fewer unknowns. That said, everyone here always raves about SWGs so it seems like the way to go eventually and, if so, it would be more efficient to do it now.

 

[mas985]

Reasons I'm hesitant to add the SWG:

1. CH levels -- from what I'm reading here, I would want my CH levels to be under 450 with an SWG. I have struggled to keep mine under 600 (currently 625). I plan to do another water replacement once the water temperature goes down enough for me to do this in place, but even if I replace half my water it'll bring me down just under 400, and with fill water at 150 it builds over time. I've been doing OK keeping CSI in check even with high CH levels. Does this work the same with an SWG or is the CH going to be an issue even if I keep CSI in check?

I have an SWCG and my CH level right now is well over 700 ppm and have had CH levels in the past approaching 1000 ppm. As long as you keep CSI around -0.3, all should be good.

1. Winterization -- we leave our pool open all year. We do get some freezing temps but last year did ok by heating the water, covering the equipment, and keeping water flowing when it got cold. Does the SWG add any additional risk in the winter, or is it just about the same risk as all the other equipment?

Shouldn't be an issue if you take precautions against freezing. Covering the equipment should keep things safe. If you do have a long freezing spell, just drain the equipment pad.

1. Changing more than one variable at once seems riskier. Things are going well with my current system using LC. Deleting the AOP and just continuing with LC seems less disruptive and fewer unknowns. That said, everyone here always raves about SWGs so it seems like the way to go eventually and, if so, it would be more efficient to do it now.

Not sure how to address this one other than you won't be sorry going to an SWG. It will save you a lot of time.

 

[Newdude]

^^^^^ all that.

We look forward to welcoming you to SWGclub.

 

[dailygenesis]

As long as you keep CSI around -0.3, all should be good.

Thanks for all the help. Is aiming for -0.3 something specific for SWGs? I have always aimed for 0 in my current situation.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I would add the SWG immediately without hesitation. Don't worry about winter months. You dose with liquid chlorine during the time that your SWG is down, when water temperatures drop below 60°.

Controlling CH and TA levels is the key to preventing SWG flakes when water temps increase during the swim season. You need to figure out a way to top off with softened water. Consider a dedicated unit for the pool, or an RV water softener.

 

[HermanTX]

Go for the SWCG.
There are many members that have SWCG with high CH. Just manage the CSI to be slightly negative.

You can leave your SWCG in place during the winter or put in a dummy pipe when temperatures go below 50F

Do it now while you have 1 plumber and can set up the way you want. Many members have complained about lack of supply of LC. Maybe you are in good shape but with a SWCG you only need to have LC during the very cold months.

 

[Jimrahbe]

dg,

I have three saltwater pools and I always jokingly say.. "I'd rather fill them in with dirt, then have them not be SWCG pools" It is almost true...

My cells stay in place in the winter, as we do not close pools here in the DFW area. Keep in mind that the cell will not work once the water temps gets to about 52 degrees. In the winter you have to use liquid chlorine, but not much, as the FC usage is almost zero...

A lot of SWCG owners run there pumps 24/7 at a low RPM... Costs next to nothing and allows the cell to add a little chlorine all the time, and skim all the time. Eliminates any need for 'Freeze Protection" as the pump is always running.

We have tons of members with SWCGs that have high CH. Does not seem to be much of an issue.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mas985]

Thanks for all the help. Is aiming for -0.3 something specific for SWGs? I have always aimed for 0 in my current situation.

For SWGs and also plaster pools. It helps keep the scale in check. Scale can shorten the life of an SWG and also make plaster rougher. Setting the CSI at 0 gives you no margin at all so there is a good change CSI may drift higher than that if your fill water is high in CH/TA/PH. Setting CSI at -0.3 gives you some margin between testing and adjusting.

One more thing. With high CH/TA/PH fill water, you may be constantly fighting rising CSI. This is my situation so invested in an acid dosing system to keep CSI as stable as possible but I still target a CSI of -0.3 at each testing interval.

 

[dailygenesis]

For SWGs and also plaster pools. It helps keep the scale in check. Scale can shorten the life of an SWG and also make plaster rougher. Setting the CSI at 0 gives you no margin at all so there is a good change CSI may drift higher than that if your fill water is high in CH/TA/PH. Setting CSI at -0.3 gives you some margin between testing and adjusting.

One more thing. With high CH/TA/PH fill water, you may be constantly fighting rising CSI. This is my situation so invested in an acid dosing system to keep CSI as stable as possible but I still target a CSI of -0.3 at each testing interval.

Thanks. This is helpful. Yeah, I definitely have constantly rising PH/CSI. I've been sort of trying to dose it to go down to -0.20 and then let it rise to around 0.20 and then dose again. I have probably scewed a little more towards the positive side overall, so I will adjust and try and scew towards the negative. From what you are saying I'm thinking maybe I aim to dose it down to -0.30 and then let it rise to 0 and dose again, something like that?

I've thought about the acid dosing system, but that might have to wait to another year. I'll just keep adding it manually for now.

 

[mas985]

From what you are saying I'm thinking maybe I aim to dose it down to -0.30 and then let it rise to 0 and dose again, something like that?

It kind of depends on the swing you are seeing between the test intervals. But if you are only getting a swing of 0 to -0.3 then sure, that works.

Just for reference, I am a bit more aggressive and average a CSI of -0.4 at test time but again, I have an auto doser so it keeps it fairly stable. Pool still has the original plaster after 18 years so don't sweat it if CSI dips a little below -0.3. I find that the lower CSI keeps my tile cleaner, plaster smoother and SWG free of scale. I only get concerned if CSI gets below -0.6 which rarely happens.

 

[dailygenesis]

I also failed to mention #4 -- which is that we have natural flagstone coping (unsealed) around the pool and stacked stone around the spa. My impression from reading this site is that most here don't have too much concern about salty water on the stone but just wondering if that is something I should consider or if there are any special steps I should take. I already have salt at 2200ppm due to LC so if there are steps I should take I should probably be taking them regardless of whether I add the SWG.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Reasons I'm hesitant to add the SWG:

1. CH levels -- from what I'm reading here, I would want my CH levels to be under 450 with an SWG. I have struggled to keep mine under 600 (currently 625). I plan to do another water replacement once the water temperature goes down enough for me to do this in place, but even if I replace half my water it'll bring me down just under 400, and with fill water at 150 it builds over time. I've been doing OK keeping CSI in check even with high CH levels. Does this work the same with an SWG or is the CH going to be an issue even if I keep CSI in check?

Howdy neighbor! I'm just up the Turner Turnpike in the Tulsa area! Figured having someone in the same region answer might help ease your mind. CH below 450... I don't have issues with my CH, that I am aware of. Mine stay around that 400 mark. But I also have a real rough time with the CH test so it could be higher. As others have said, shoot for a CSI between 0.0 and -0.3 and all should be fine.

2. Winterization -- we leave our pool open all year. We do get some freezing temps but last year did ok by heating the water, covering the equipment, and keeping water flowing when it got cold. Does the SWG add any additional risk in the winter, or is it just about the same risk as all the other equipment?

I also leave my pool open all year. The SWG doesn't add any additional risk. In fact, I would think that if you were to lose power and need to drain everything, the SWG would be a very quick way to get the piping to drain as you can break open the unions really easily.

I don't run my heater except during the weekly Spa schedule that I have set up to make sure the heater gets exercised weekly. Moving water is all that is needed to prevent freezing, especially in the climate that we have. During the Arctic Freeze in 2021, I protected all the equipment from wind, and just kept the water moving and all was well. Fired equipment such as heaters do not do well when they are not being fired. Things such as bugs and rodents can cause build up in places that shouldn't have blockages and create a significant difficulty relighting and running down the road. In my opinion, running the heater once a week is good insurance as well as a good time to confirm it is working correctly so that I don't get surprised when I want to use it and it isn't functioning.

3. Changing more than one variable at once seems riskier. Things are going well with my current system using LC. Deleting the AOP and just continuing with LC seems less disruptive and fewer unknowns. That said, everyone here always raves about SWGs so it seems like the way to go eventually and, if so, it would be more efficient to do it now.

I understand this perspective, however I would present to you that the items you are having removed, are adding nothing of value to the water. The only variable I would consider that was being changed when doing all of this would be the method of getting the chlorine into the pool. Right now it is jug lugging, after it would be SWG. I will tell you that we are about a month away from SWG shutting off due to nighttime temps. Usually end of October I have to revert to dosing with LC. I do this until usually sometime in March when the water temps are regularly back in the 70's. My SWG salinity calc goes wonky when temps get below 70 so I usually don't trust that it will keep producing.

I also have some flagstone around my spa and water feature wall. The only 'damage' I've seen from that is natural damage from water eroding it (on the spa spillway) and other pieces where they delaminate from a natural line in the stone. Not a geologist so I don't know what those lines are called, so I hope that is clear.

Go SWG all the way and don't look back. If you get it installed in the next week, you should have a little bit of time to get somewhat acclimated before shutting it down for the winter. Then next spring you'll be ready to go!

--Jeff

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I will add that I have kept my CSI between 0.0 and -0.3 since I took over my pool from the PB in February of 2020. I finally checked my SWCG for scale earlier this year. Clean as a whistle. Nothing at all in there.

--Jeff

 

[dailygenesis]

Howdy neighbor! I'm just up the Turner Turnpike in the Tulsa area! Figured having someone in the same region answer might help ease your mind. CH below 450... I don't have issues with my CH, that I am aware of. Mine stay around that 400 mark. But I also have a real rough time with the CH test so it could be higher. As others have said, shoot for a CSI between 0.0 and -0.3 and all should be fine.

I also leave my pool open all year. The SWG doesn't add any additional risk. In fact, I would think that if you were to lose power and need to drain everything, the SWG would be a very quick way to get the piping to drain as you can break open the unions really easily.

I don't run my heater except during the weekly Spa schedule that I have set up to make sure the heater gets exercised weekly. Moving water is all that is needed to prevent freezing, especially in the climate that we have. During the Arctic Freeze in 2021, I protected all the equipment from wind, and just kept the water moving and all was well. Fired equipment such as heaters do not do well when they are not being fired. Things such as bugs and rodents can cause build up in places that shouldn't have blockages and create a significant difficulty relighting and running down the road. In my opinion, running the heater once a week is good insurance as well as a good time to confirm it is working correctly so that I don't get surprised when I want to use it and it isn't functioning.

I understand this perspective, however I would present to you that the items you are having removed, are adding nothing of value to the water. The only variable I would consider that was being changed when doing all of this would be the method of getting the chlorine into the pool. Right now it is jug lugging, after it would be SWG. I will tell you that we are about a month away from SWG shutting off due to nighttime temps. Usually end of October I have to revert to dosing with LC. I do this until usually sometime in March when the water temps are regularly back in the 70's. My SWG salinity calc goes wonky when temps get below 70 so I usually don't trust that it will keep producing.

I also have some flagstone around my spa and water feature wall. The only 'damage' I've seen from that is natural damage from water eroding it (on the spa spillway) and other pieces where they delaminate from a natural line in the stone. Not a geologist so I don't know what those lines are called, so I hope that is clear.

Go SWG all the way and don't look back. If you get it installed in the next week, you should have a little bit of time to get somewhat acclimated before shutting it down for the winter. Then next spring you'll be ready to go!

--Jeff

Thanks for the info. Great to hear from someone in the same general area of the country!

 

[dailygenesis]

Well I have been convinced. I put in my deposit to get the work scheduled. Hopefully it should be installed in the next week or two.