Connecticut Heat Pump vs Propane

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C

CTPoolGuy

Member
Feb 1, 2023
6
Connecticut
Hi all,

I live in Connecticut and I am considering installing a 20x40 (approx 33k gallons?) pool with internal spa. I already have a buried propane tank for home heating and cooking. I also recently installed solar panels with battery backup. Propane costs $2.69/gallon. Power prices are now $0.35/kwh, but since I installed the solar panels my effective cost is zero.

I would like to use the solar panels to heat the pool so I am considering a heat pump.

I anticipate using the pool from May to October though I really expect using the spa only during May and October. The historical average temperate on May 1 is 55 and the average temperature on October 31 is 51.

Based on reading many of the posts here (thank you all for your prior contributions!!) I feel confident that the heat pump (powered with solar panels) will cost far less to operate. However, I also understand that the heat pump will not be able to get the spa up to temperature especially during May and October.

With this set up, would you recommend a heat pump with a smaller propane heater dedicated to the spa only? How difficult is that to set up and install? I am working with a local contractor who has only done propane heater installs in his many years doing this.

Thanks so much for your comments!
 
Welcome to TFP.

What pool/spa control system are you getting?

You want a control system like the Pentair IntelliCenter that can coordinate heating with a Heat Pump and a gas heater. Pentair installation manuals show how to hook up an UltraTemp Heat Pump and a MasterTemp gas heater.

A heat pump is a reverse air conditioning unit. It hooks up similar to an AC Condenser unit. Make sure you have sufficient power at the pool equipment pad to supply 240V@60 amps for the HP.
 
ajw22 said:
Welcome to TFP.

What pool/spa control system are you getting?

You want a control system like the Pentair IntelliCenter that can coordinate heating with a Heat Pump and a gas heater. Pentair installation manuals show how to hook up an UltraTemp Heat Pump and a MasterTemp gas heater.

A heat pump is a reverse air conditioning unit. It hooks up similar to an AC Condenser unit. Make sure you have sufficient power at the pool equipment pad to supply 240V@60 amps for the HP.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply

My pool contractor is a Pentair dealer so I’m sure he can do what you’re saying. Which units in particular are you talking about?

I see that Pentair has a hybrid unit, but I’m concerned that’s really just an underpowered heat pump stapled to a small propane heater.
 
CTPoolGuy said:
My pool contractor is a Pentair dealer so I’m sure he can do what you’re saying. Which units in particular are you talking about?
Click to expand...
www.pentair.com

IntelliCenter® and IntelliCenter Lite Pool Control Systems

The IntelliCenter Pool Automation system works with the IntelliCenter2 app to put total pool control right in the palm of your hand.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

www.pentair.com

UltraTemp High Performance Pool Heat Pump

Pentair UltraTemp High Performance Pool and Spa Heat Pump is the first heat pump with ozone-friendly refrigerant is also the most efficient and economical.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

www.pentair.com

MasterTemp® High Performance Pool and Spa Heaters

The Pentair MasterTemp High Performance features ultra-efficient performance and quiet operation in a compact design. Shop products here.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

CTPoolGuy said:
I see that Pentair has a hybrid unit, but I’m concerned that’s really just an underpowered heat pump stapled to a small propane heater.
Click to expand...
The hybrid heater is ok. It is no bargain and costs as much as two separate units. And if either side has a major problem you have to replace it all at a high cost.
 
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They both have their +/-s and getting both is really the only way to win in the end.

The gas heater will work much better in the extended season. It's costs are high but at least it works. The downside is it's just as expensive when it doesn't need overcome as much during the regular season.

The HP costs an equal fortune in the extended season and may or may not be able to overcome the seasonal temps. At 1/3 the BTU, 33k gallons may be too much for it to overcome. But during the regular season it's cost effective. I had a HP on a 20x40 in our climate and the weather was the deciding factor. A couple years it worked well enough and a couple it didn't. This year for example probably would have been fine as it was so warm. Next year is anybody guess.

I plumbed out the new pool with room for an eventual heater and will go gas when the time comes based on the HP experience. We almost never needed it during the regular season and it cost just as much in the extended season, with so-so results.
 
CTPoolGuy said:
Hi all,

I live in Connecticut and I am considering installing a 20x40 (approx 33k gallons?) pool with internal spa. I already have a buried propane tank for home heating and cooking. I also recently installed solar panels with battery backup. Propane costs $2.69/gallon. Power prices are now $0.35/kwh, but since I installed the solar panels my effective cost is zero.

I would like to use the solar panels to heat the pool so I am considering a heat pump.

I anticipate using the pool from May to October though I really expect using the spa only during May and October. The historical average temperate on May 1 is 55 and the average temperature on October 31 is 51.

Based on reading many of the posts here (thank you all for your prior contributions!!) I feel confident that the heat pump (powered with solar panels) will cost far less to operate. However, I also understand that the heat pump will not be able to get the spa up to temperature especially during May and October.

With this set up, would you recommend a heat pump with a smaller propane heater dedicated to the spa only? How difficult is that to set up and install? I am working with a local contractor who has only done propane heater installs in his many years doing this.

Thanks so much for your comments!
Click to expand...
The cost to heat a spa will be about the same regardless of the size of propane heater. A small heater will just take longer. For a pool that size you want at 400K heater. If you go that route you may want to consider the size of your existing propane tank. A 400K heater will pull 4 gallons an hour out of the tank. A spa should be able to heat to the temperature you want in about 30 minutes or less depending on size and starting temperature. If you heat your pool with propane you will get about a 1.25 degree per hour rise in temperature. It could take 10 to 20 hours to get to your desired pool temperature. That could leave you with no heat, hot water, cooking (if you have a gas range) with only a single tank.

I used to have a customer on service that would run their tank out at least once a year because of a pool party over a weekend. Monday morning was cold showers and cold cereal for breakfast.
 
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1poolman1 said:
The cost to heat a spa will be about the same regardless of the size of propane heater. A small heater will just take longer. For a pool that size you want at 400K heater. If you go that route you may want to consider the size of your existing propane tank. A 400K heater will pull 4 gallons an hour out of the tank. A spa should be able to heat to the temperature you want in about 30 minutes or less depending on size and starting temperature. If you heat your pool with propane you will get about a 1.25 degree per hour rise in temperature. It could take 10 to 20 hours to get to your desired pool temperature. That could leave you with no heat, hot water, cooking (if you have a gas range) with only a single tank.

I used to have a customer on service that would run their tank out at least once a year because of a pool party over a weekend. Monday morning was cold showers and cold cereal for breakfast
Click to expand...
This is tremendous insight for me.

This is also why I want to use the heat pump. I have already paid for the solar panels so my effective cost for electricity now is zero.

I understand from other forums on TFP that I can expect the pool to reach the average ambient temperature + 20 degrees. So if the average is 60, then the heat pump could get me to 80. I will also have an opaque cover which will be used when the pool is not in use. Maybe that helps me do a little better than +20.

So if the Raypak calculator is close to accurate, it will cost be almost nothing to get my pool to 80 in early May and late October (depending on the actual weather).

Of course, I’m really nervous about using an online calculator for something like this so I’m really curious if people’s real world experience. I have never built a pool so I’m flying totally blind.

Last thing is my contractor wants me to do propane “because everyone else does propane”. I get that, but I also know that very few people in my town have solar panels installed.

Thank you all again for your thoughts.
 
CTPoolGuy said:
This is tremendous insight for me.

This is also why I want to use the heat pump. I have already paid for the solar panels so my effective cost for electricity now is zero.

I understand from other forums on TFP that I can expect the pool to reach the average ambient temperature + 20 degrees. So if the average is 60, then the heat pump could get me to 80. I will also have an opaque cover which will be used when the pool is not in use. Maybe that helps me do a little better than +20.

So if the Raypak calculator is close to accurate, it will cost be almost nothing to get my pool to 80 in early May and late October (depending on the actual weather).

Of course, I’m really nervous about using an online calculator for something like this so I’m really curious if people’s real world experience. I have never built a pool so I’m flying totally blind.

Last thing is my contractor wants me to do propane “because everyone else does propane”. I get that, but I also know that very few people in my town have solar panels installed.

Thank you all again for your thoughts.
Click to expand...
For what it’s worth this is the Raypak calculator I’m looking at. I’ve also used the Pentair calculator which gets me basically to the same place, but the Raypak has more details to check how it is working.
 

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CTPoolGuy said:
Of course, I’m really nervous about using an online calculator for something like this so really curious if people’s real world experience.
Click to expand...
Had a HP with 35k gallons just south of you on Long Island. Of the 5 years I used it, 2 worked great, 1 was so-so and 2 didn't. Maybe with a small pool but not with what you're getting. On the warm years, you don't need the heater nearly as much as you did on the cold years. It's ironic like that.

However, the counter point is that on cool years, you likely won't feel like swimming anyway. (Year 2 and on, once the novelty wears off).
CTPoolGuy said:
Last thing is my contractor wants me to do propane “because everyone else does propane”.
Click to expand...
Due to how well putting a small (by BTU comparison) heat pump on a big pool works here. Some folks dont have access to gas so there is no choice, and something is better than nothing. Or the price for a gas upgrade / conversion / tank install sways them against it. Everyone else gets gas up here.
 
CTPoolGuy said:
I will also have an opaque cover which will be used when the pool is not in use. Maybe that helps me do a little better than +20.
Click to expand...

A pool cover does not help heat a pool. Pool covers help by retaining the heat in the water, especially overnight.

As a data point my uncovered pool in NJ loses about 4 degrees overnight. Then my 400K NG heater runs about 4 hours in the morning to get the pool back up to temperature.

With a 33K pool and a 140K HP it will hear your pool maybe 1/2 degree an hour. Without a pool cover it would take you 8-10 hours to recover 4 degrees of heat loss.

You have solar cells giving you electricity but what is your electric situation at night? Do you have a Tesla battery store?

The benefit to your pool cover is to have your HP need to recover less heat, which it does slowly.
 
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ajw22 said:
A pool cover does not help heat a pool. Pool covers help by retaining the heat in the water, especially overnight.

As a data point my uncovered pool in NJ loses about 4 degrees overnight. Then my 400K NG heater runs about 4 hours in the morning to get the pool back up to temperature.

With a 33K pool and a 140K HP it will hear your pool maybe 1/2 degree an hour. Without a pool cover it would take you 8-10 hours to recover 4 degrees of heat loss.

You have solar cells giving you electricity but what is your electric situation at night? Do you have a Tesla battery store?

The benefit to your pool cover is to have your HP need to recover less heat, which it does slowly.
Click to expand...

Yes I have 2 Powerwalls as well
 
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