The higher CYA level, even with a proportionally higher FC level, results in a lower absolute chlorine loss to sunlight. With a lower CYA level, you have to run the SWG longer to keep up the FC level and running the SWG longer results in more hydrogen gas bubbles so more aeration of the water that has more carbon dioxide outgas which raises the pH. There may also be some undissolved chlorine gas that outgases and that also raises the pH.
Cloudy water
- Thread starter hillyjd
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Makes sense. FC is way up tonioght. Like 8.5. Dropped SWG to 30% - normally runs 60% this time of year in Tucson. Everything else is pretty good. PH @ 7.5, TA @ 60, CYA @ 50. But no progress in cleaning up the cloudiness. Very frustrating.
Update - It's now Thursday and the filter pump has been running continuously since Sunday morning with no appreciable change in clarity. Am I just being impatient or do I need more drastic measures?
The DE should have helped so something is not right. Either you've got some channeling or something bypassing your filter or your cloudiness is more like a colloid (think milk). You added clarifier that made things worse so I'd hate for you to try and add a different clarifier or flocculant. Your water parameters would not indicate calcium carbonate over-saturation and that would tend to filter out anyway. As I wrote, the last resort clarifiers are GLB Clear Blue and Bioguard Polysheen Blue and for a flocculant its OMNI Liquid Floc Plus, but since you already added a mysterious clarifier I have no idea what adding more will do.
That's what I figured too. Filter ran all night and I'd say maybe a slight improvement this morning. So maybe patience is the best course at the moment. One curiosity - over this past week I've back washed twice (Sunday and Tuesday) and added 1.5 cups of DE each time. After running the filter for 24 hours, the pressure is up by 5 psi (which is the reason I back washed on Tuesday). If the pump turns off, even for a little while, the pressure drops by 4 psi to a level just slightly above where it is before I add any DE, and then it stays well below that 5 psi point. For example, the filter has been running for the last 12 hours straight and the pressure is up about 1.5 psi. Should I add more DE or just let it do it's thing?
According to Add DE to a Sand Filter, the pressure should only rise by about 1 PSI anyway so I'm not sure what the larger rise means and ten having it drop. That doesn't sound right. Sounds almost like maybe it initially caught something, but then stopping and starting the filter had the stuff find its way through the filter maybe even back into the pool (not necessarily the DE, but what the DE caught initially. Just a thought -- probably wrong.
Update - in the big scheme of things, my filter has been running almost non-stop for two weeks without any noticeable improvement. Understand that I'm not being that critical. You can barely see the large drain cover at the deep end I have fairly dark pebble tech so there's a pretty good contrast. Yesterday morning since the filter pressure was 5 psi high, I backwashed again for a solid 5 minutes, added another 1.5 cups of DE and ran it all day. Back wash looks very clean in my opinion; not the usual 30-40 seconds of dirty water that I'm used to seeing at the start of a back wash. No improvement that night, but this morning, there is a slight but noticeable improvement. Pump running again about 5 psi above normal and 4 psi above where it was after I added the DE. Measured all the chemicals - near perfect.
FC = 6.0
Ph = 7.7
TA = 60 (a tad low perhaps??)
CH = 320
CYA = 65
Salt = 3000
So I see my options:
1. Do nothing
2. Back flush again - seems counter productive at this point
3. Add more DE - worry that the pressure goes through the roof
4. Raise the TA - hardly seems worth it
5. Go nuclear and replace the sand in the filter. Hard to believe the sand is not doing anything since it's barely a year old and the pressure does increase like it is catching something.
I'm leaning towards option 1, but would welcome other opinions.
FC = 6.0
Ph = 7.7
TA = 60 (a tad low perhaps??)
CH = 320
CYA = 65
Salt = 3000
So I see my options:
1. Do nothing
2. Back flush again - seems counter productive at this point
3. Add more DE - worry that the pressure goes through the roof
4. Raise the TA - hardly seems worth it
5. Go nuclear and replace the sand in the filter. Hard to believe the sand is not doing anything since it's barely a year old and the pressure does increase like it is catching something.
I'm leaning towards option 1, but would welcome other opinions.
Do you have floor drains, pop-ups, or anything to give you circulation in the deep end? Did you try pointing returns downwards to improve bottom circulation? Is the cloudiness mostly concentrated where circulation may be poor?
There are pop-ups throughout the deep end and the pressure at the pop-ups seems fine. The pop-up zones seem to be working normally. After running the filter non-stop, the entire pool is as clear of noticiable debris as I've ever had it. I brushed it thoroughly last weekend and did not see any of the even normal debris that usually kicks up from the floor during a brushing. The cloudiness is very uniform in my opinion. You can see it in the spa at the shallow end. I'm more and more convinced that somehow the sand has lost it's ability to filter down to a good enough level. Some other observations:
1. No significant improvement after a major back flush that should have introduced at least 500 gallons of clear water.
2. Chlorine is stubbornly high of all things. I've been running the SWG at 10% for 2 days and the CH dropped from 8.5 to 6.0. This time of year with the pool temp around 90 (it's Tucson), I usually run the SWG at 70% or higher. Of course I have raised the CYA from 20 to 65 during that time.
No idea if either one of these is a factor. Thanks again for your interest.
1. No significant improvement after a major back flush that should have introduced at least 500 gallons of clear water.
2. Chlorine is stubbornly high of all things. I've been running the SWG at 10% for 2 days and the CH dropped from 8.5 to 6.0. This time of year with the pool temp around 90 (it's Tucson), I usually run the SWG at 70% or higher. Of course I have raised the CYA from 20 to 65 during that time.
No idea if either one of these is a factor. Thanks again for your interest.
Well what's interesting is that even DE added to the sand filter didn't clear things up completely. It's possible you've got something like a milky colloid that even DE won't catch, but that would be very unusual. I hate to say it, but if you wanted to try a single recommended dose of one of the two recommended last-resort clarifier products (or the flocculant product), then that's an option for you.
Here's something my wife mentioned last night. We've always had a terrible time with calcium build up on the pool tile. Over the years we've tried everything but it always comes back with a vengence so for the past several years we did nothing. We finally couldn't stand it any more and starting last October or so we literally took matters into our own hands. We routinely have morning coffee in the spa on Saturday's and my off Friday, and we starting scraping off the calcium in the spa one tile at a time using razor blades. It took us a good 6 months just to get the spa tile clean and we started on the spillway (the worst part) about a month ago. Could all that scraped off calcium be the source? We never had a problem in the past when we had the tiles blasted, but that was when we had the cartridge filter. I figured most of that calcium is certainly big enough to get caught by the sand filter, but could it be desolving and causing the cloudiness. I've religiously measured the CH and, while it's been much higher than in the past, it's never gotten above 400 and yesterday it was at 320.
That's unlikely since calcium carbonate precipitates into crystals that should be able to get caught into the filter. They usually don't stay in suspension. If it's calcium carbonate, you can just lower the pH and see if it clears up. If it does, then that is what it was and hopefully raising the pH back up carefully will prevent it from clouding up again.
Added acid last night and ran the filter all night. No appreciable difference this morning. Ph now 7.3 (was 7.7). Should I lower it some more? Filter pressure was only 1 psi above what it is after a back flush, so I added 1.5 cups of DE. I figured it can't hurt. Curiously, CL is still very high (> 6.5) with the SWG still at 10%. I'm thinking about turning it off for a while to get it back to nominal. What do you think?
Stopped by Patio Pools this morning. They suggested bringing in a water sample to test for minerals on their "special" test set. He said that if the pool water was "old" it might have a build up of minerals that is causing the problem. Is it worth another half hour drive to check this out?
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